Finding excuses to hate Muslims?

[Marsh]

I so disagree. The scary thing is how closely similar we are.

Would you care to offer an explanation? Your position is unfathomable to me.

 

[LuisDantas]

Re-education? I can see that working on individuals, but not on an entire society.

Not in a single generation, certainly.

The short of it is that we have no actual choice. It must be tried.

Would you care to offer an explanation? Your position is unfathomable to me.

I'm a bit disturbed by this. In these days of air bombings, claims that atomic weapons save lives, and several nightmarish conflicts since WW1, it is difficult for me to understand what you mean.

 

[Fingy]

I have a very strong aversion to Islam and it’s adherents. I believe Islam is antithetical to human happiness and well being and is demonstrably so. I have not sought an enemy to vilify and caricature or provide a scapegoat for a perceived grievance. Islam found me. I make objective observations about Islam and conclude that it is a retrograde and dangerous faith. For years I used to defend Islam and Muslims. However over time my ability to defend Islam, to engage any apologetic in their favour has been completely eroded. The behavior of Muslims world wide in every country they inhabit is consistently and persistently, atrociously bad. Do I really need to site the hundreds of thousands of Islamic terror attacks? The female genital mutilation? The cruelty of Shariah law? The rabid anti-semitism to be found across the Muslim world (it is saturated in the people, literature, custom, law etc. of Islam) and in every country on earth? The behavior and career of Muhammad and his disciples? Institutionalized misogyny, homophobia, slavery, dhimmitude, child abuse, dearth of civil rights, endemic rape, intolerance and intense persecution of all non-muslim faiths, honour killings, takkiya lies. The list goes on ad infinitum and every day more heinous crimes are committed by Muslims for the sake of Allah and the Prophet.

Just look at some of the headlines this week.

Caliph Publishes Hit List of 3600 New Yorkers…
(Scotland) Family Faces Deportation for Opposing Wahhabi Mosque…
Face of 'Refugee Crisis' Doing Fine Back in Iraq - Son in EU is Criminal
75-Year-Old Hindu Murdered for His Religion…
Rutgers Paper Scraps Entire Issue over 'Muhammad' Cartoon…
ISIS Video Shows Executions with Camera Affixed to Gun…
California Woman's Discrimination Claim Exposed as Lie…
Saudi Prince: Country 'Not Ready' for Women Drivers…
(Sweden) Green Party Invites Bin Laden Mentor to Speak…
Catholic Bishop: Not Christian to Protect Austria with Fence…
'Ordinary Crime' Ignored in EU as Police Consumed by Migrants…
Man Arrested for Setting Wife on Fire…
US Dept. of Education Encourages Teaching Islam in the Classroom…
Christian Boy Lynched for Flirting with Muslim Girl…
AUS Teen Plotted Terror After Going Through Govt. 'De-Radicalization'
Austria: Only 20% of 'Migrants' are Real Refugees…
Austrians Tired of Migrant Sex Attacks…
Turkey Tried Pressuring Sweden into Dropping Genocide Documentary…
'Asylum Seeker' Admits Raping Boy at Pool: 'Sexual Emergency'…
Science Teachers Jailed for 'Insulting Islam'…

At what point will non-muslims who still defend this behavior wake up and recognize what is staring them in the face? What will it take for people to understand that the Islamic world is in a crisis period and is coming apart at the seams?

 

[Marsh]

I have a very strong aversion to Islam and it’s adherents.

I want to qualify. I too have an aversion to Islam, but not to all of its adherents. I personally know a number of Muslims, and they are good people. The problem, as I see it, is with the Muslim holy books themselves. Many Muslims deny that ISIS represents their religion, they say that it is not true Islam, but remember that many evangelical Christians say that Catholicism is not true Christianity. ISIS is true Islam, maybe even truer Islam than that practiced by moderate Muslims in the West. The Atlantic published a piece in March of 2015 which makes clear that ISIS is following the "example of Muhammad, in punctilious detail." http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I would love to. But the reason to believe in such a thing keeps refusing to materialize.


You believe in that? I fear you will be disappointed in a serious way.

No of course I don't believe in it. I know it.

When you have seen the patterns over and over again, it becomes more and more obvious that they are being uses as a scapegoat, someone everyone can blame their problems on. But hey, many people were duped. Just like with the conflicts with whites and blacks, the same is with Muslims and non Muslims. Someone is doing a divide and conquer move here. They don't even realize they're being manipulated into doing that.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

The really crazy thing is that when a Muslim does something bad, they have this idea that their religion made them that way and if Islam never ever existed, they wouldn't have done it. Yeah right. That's like saying if there was no religion, there would be no conflict. And most of the Muslim bashers never even met a Muslim in their life. And conflict with other groups is usually because of one thing. Ignorance. You don't know many or know enough of their culture and only see the violent lunatic side of it, and read 2 passages of the Quran without even researching the history behind it, and then come to the conclusion that all Muslims are bad. People would have conflicts whether you had religion or not or if everyone was part of the same religion or not.

I guess some people never read too much history. Many atheists, i.e. the russian communists did bad things to and conflicted with others and they destroyed many temples. Countries who are of the same religion still fight each other. Even if they are in the same country.

It never occurred to some people that the Muslim lunatics were just that? Lunatics? But hey they see it on the news so it must be all correct right? I guess the media never created the news or fabricated stories right? But you see it repeated over and over in the headlines, so you think that the violent Muslim population is large when in fact, there's quite a few that wouldn't even think of doing that and have gone out of their way to combat the violent Muslims. But that doesn't get enough press does it? Just because it wasn't reported, doesn't mean it did not happen and just because it's on the news, doesn't mean it wasn't created, as opposed to being reported.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Do you condemn those that use only the Quran?

No.

 

[blue taylor]

No.

Good. Then you are one of the few. A tolerant Islam is the Islam of the glory days when Islam was the first to establish public hospitals and schools. What happened to it?

 

[Marsh]

... they are being uses as a scapegoat, someone everyone can blame their problems on.

The Christians under Nero were scapegoats. The Jews in the Middle Ages and in Nazi Germany were scapegoats. Fanatical Muslims around the world, butchering and enslaving thousands, are not scapegoats.

 

[LuisDantas]

@Theweirdtophat

I don't think one can in good faith have it both ways. Religion has a meaning, a purpose, consequences. It can't expect to be respected for its good results even as it refuses to take responsibility for the bad ones.

It is in the nature of Islam to encourage and expect people to believe in One True, Creator God, and to take refuge in that certainty often and intensely.

Plain as the fact is that most Muslims are not dangerous lunatics, that is no excuse for pretending not to notice that a sizeable contingent simply fails to handle those extreme beliefs in anything approaching a healthy manner.

Even more troubling is the evidence that, for all that it hopes to avoid those extremes, Islam is sorely lacking in actual means for handling them. It is just too focused on authoritarian and dogmatic ideas to give itself much of a chance for accepting the responsibility of healing its misguided fundamentalists. It is far more likely to feel unconfortable with them and decide that they must not be "true Muslims".

To me that is simply not a very healthy, respectable or honest attitude for one to have. It might perhaps be manageable at a time when most Muslims lived under a tribal society and met each other in person often enough to disabuse themselves of their worst misconceptions from time to time. But as the numbers grew, so did the disfuncionality that is IMO inherent to the flaws of a strictly monotheistic, scripture-based religion. And Islam simply failed to (so far) build the structures to handle that challenge, to a large extent because it tends to forbid itself from making the attempt.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Good. Then you are one of the few. A tolerant Islam is the Islam of the glory days when Islam was the first to establish public hospitals and schools. What happened to it?

Many Muslims became corrupted or were led astray by the Devil and their servants (as has happened with all other religions).

 

[The_Fisher_King]

@Theweirdtophat

Even more troubling is the evidence that, for all that it hopes to avoid those extremes, Islam is sorely lacking in actual means for handling them. It is just too focused on authoritarian and dogmatic ideas to give itself much of a chance for accepting the responsibility of healing its misguided fundamentalists. It is far more likely to feel unconfortable with them and decide that they must not be "true Muslims".

And Islam simply failed to (so far) build the structures to handle that challenge, to a large extent because it tends to forbid itself from making the attempt.

It is not that Islaam is lacking in the means for handling extremes or that Islaam has failed to build the structures to handle the challenges, or that Islaam forbids itself from making the attempt. Rather it is (some) Muslims; we are after all not perfect, and therefore bound to make mistakes in our interpretation of the Qur'aan and (authentic) Ahaadeeth, not to mention the problem of those who are actively seeking to corrupt Muslims and lead them astray.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is not that Islaam is lacking in the means for handling extremes or that Islaam has failed to build the structures to handle the challenges, or that Islaam forbids itself from making the attempt.

You seem to contradict that when you say this:

Rather it is (some) Muslims; we are after all not perfect, and therefore bound to make mistakes in our interpretation of the Qur'aan and (authentic) Ahaadeeth, not to mention the problem of those who are actively seeking to corrupt Muslims and lead them astray.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

The Christians under Nero were scapegoats. The Jews in the Middle Ages and in Nazi Germany were scapegoats. Fanatical Muslims around the world, butchering and enslaving thousands, are not scapegoats.

Yeah you said it. Fanatical Muslims, not Muslims themselves but people love to think all Muslims have to be fanatical. There's over a billion of them and hundreds of millions of them don't go around force converting everyone. Add up all the muslin terrorists in the world. They'd make up less than 1% of the entire Muslim population. You see it a lot on the news and you assume there are a lot of them, when really there's not that many of them. Then you start taking your anger out on Muslims that are innocent. But the news is good at doing that. Exaggerating and fabricating stuff, making you think a certain way so they will get you to do something they wanted you to do for years. Which is to be divided.

I'm seriously glad I haven't fallen for this ploy.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You seem to contradict that when you say this:

I don't see how. I draw a distinction between Islaam on the one hand and Muslims and their attempts to follow Islaam on the other.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't see how. I draw a distinction between Islaam on the one hand and Muslims and their attempts to follow Islaam on the other.

That you do. And I think that is less than reassuring. At least in this context.