Ferguson: Moving on..why none of this will mater...

[outhouse]

Your post is obviously ignorant about levels...

Same back at ya! You have no idea what public safety is, and how that trumps criminal safety.

Sounds like you have no idea of how many guns are on our streets used by criminals.

And how many are combative.



Why is the only people that have issues with the police are generally criminals.


And or bleeding hearts that wont step up and do the crappy job that needs to be done.

 

[outhouse]

So what of

They are people, and no matter what law is in place, mistakes will happen.

None of us like.


I can tell you with 100% certainty, in each and every case, if the people had not resisted or listened to the officers commands, they would be alive.


And people have bad days, same for enforcement, and some cops are just stupid, and some cops are just plain bad.



They are the mop up boys, when you call no matter how deep the crap pile is, that you may have started yourself, they show up and clean it up the mess.


The only advise I can give is stay away from them, avoid them, they are not that bright, listen to them if given a command and don't argue because they have a crap job.

 

[outhouse]

I do not believe in killing in self defense unless the situation is very dire. If at all possible

Well it does not work like that.

Cops have to make split second decisions that can affect their life, dealing with the scum of the earth.


You cannot wound someone in the knee, when the officer does not know if there is a gun on said criminal. You don't leave any chances when deadly force is required.


They are people with guns, who have every right to go home at the end of the day.

 

[oldbadger]

Same back at ya! You have no idea what public safety is, and how that trumps criminal safety.

Sounds like you have no idea of how many guns are on our streets used by criminals.

And how many are combative.



Why is the only people that have issues with the police are generally criminals.


And or bleeding hearts that wont step up and do the crappy job that needs to be done.

You don't understand about stress-threshold collapse in operatives who experience high-conflict situations on a day to day basis.

It's a comprehension issue for you because you have never had to train operatives to act as consistently as possible regardless of shock, fear, stress and strain levels that can differ in each individual case.

I would not expect much from you after reading your ignorant and careless posts on this thread.

Out of the 22 deaths caused by Police in the British incidents that have happened over that last 40 years or so, I can remember several of them that could have been avoided ........ let's say over 20%. If that kind of % might be relevant to the US figure of 5000 deaths since 2001, then 1000 lives might have been saved if more attention could be focused on the points that I have already made.

I worked in the field of training private sector ops for over 20 years, have made many training films and training courses. I wrote about operative training as a speciality in our national security magazine for 15 years.

 

[oldbadger]

..................
Cops have to make split second decisions that can affect their life, dealing with the scum of the earth...................

Stupid post.
Brit victims like Mark Duggan, Ian Tomlinson and several others were just innocent folks who police officers made bad, careless or reckless mistalkes about, possibly due to lack of counselling and retraining.

This is probably true about US casualties.

If you lost a child, shot dead because that child went forward to reproach an officer over some issue involving their friend you would not be showing such an arrogant, ignorant or wrong point of view.

These are your most shocking posts, ever..... that's saying something.

 

[outhouse]

I worked in the field of training private sector ops for over 20 years, have made many training films and training courses. I wrote about operative training as a speciality in our national security magazine for 15 years.

So what.

Does not address a word I posted.

Police in the British incidents

has no bearing at all here in the USA

 

[outhouse]

Stupid post.

You have your own biased opinion, that's fine.

But you still take everything out of context and ignore the important aspect of my post.


They have the right to go home at the end of the day. And they do not deal with role models on a daily basis.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

You don't understand about stress-threshold collapse in operatives who experience high-conflict situations on a day to day basis.

It's a comprehension issue for you because you have never had to train operatives to act as consistently as possible regardless of shock, fear, stress and strain levels that can differ in each individual case.

I would not expect much from you after reading your ignorant and careless posts on this thread.

Out of the 22 deaths caused by Police in the British incidents that have happened over that last 40 years or so, I can remember several of them that could have been avoided ........ let's say over 20%. If that kind of % might be relevant to the US figure of 5000 deaths since 2001, then 1000 lives might have been saved if more attention could be focused on the points that I have already made.

I worked in the field of training private sector ops for over 20 years, have made many training films and training courses. I wrote about operative training as a speciality in our national security magazine for 15 years.

What does stress threshold have to do with a matter of someone using a gun to defend themself against a physical assault? Are you implying that accumulated stress is the cause of having to use a gun in every case as opposed to just wanting to protect yourself?

I'd like to know how many cops are injured in your country especially if criminals don't take them seriously unless they see a gun.

 

[oldbadger]

You have your own biased opinion, that's fine.

But you still take everything out of context and ignore the important aspect of my post.


They have the right to go home at the end of the day. And they do not deal with role models on a daily basis.

Crazy post.....
If somebody you love was shot by accident and you got a letter from the Police Authority politely explaining that these accidents do happen, but that obviously police have to make sure that they get home safe each day........ you might then see how upside down your thinking is.

Yes, they do deal with decent folks every day....... they just need constant and reviewed retraining and regular counselling to asess their stress-coping levels. Where necessary officers do need rest and recuperation as often as possible. If it costs more..... it costs more.

 

[outhouse]

Crazy post.....

You don't have the credibility to verbally attack anyone.

Yes, they do deal with decent folks every day....... they just need constant and reviewed retraining and regular counselling to asess their stress-coping levels. Where necessary officers do need rest and recuperation as often as possible. If it costs more..... it costs more.

Does not address one word I posted.

No one is arguing there is no room for improvement, and I have stated quite clearly to avoid their stupidity.



The reason why you such trouble debating is you cannot stay in context.

 

[oldbadger]

What does stress threshold have to do with a matter of someone using a gun to defend themself against a physical assault? Are you implying that accumulated stress is the cause of having to use a gun in every case as opposed to just wanting to protect yourself?

An operative's ability to cope with high conflict, stress, fear and duress can alter over time. This is well known. Therefore ops need much more time and money spent on their counselling, training reviews, rest and recuperation, and if it costs money then it costs money. Which part of this do you find as difficult to understand?

Each incident is an individual case. What do you do for a living?

I'd like to know how many cops are injured in your country especially if criminals don't take them seriously unless they see a gun.

Our police mostly have metal batons and pepper or CS sprays. Your post looks aggressive about my suggestion for more counselling, retraining, rest and recuperation for police officers...... why?

 

[outhouse]

What does stress threshold have to do with a matter of someone using a gun to defend themself against a physical assault?

It does not.


Maybe he thinks our cops who work in areas close to combat zones, have no right to protect themselves.


Lets send him to Los Angeles or Oakland and see how he does.

 

[outhouse]

Our police mostly have metal batons and pepper or CS sprays.

Your cops would all be killed the first day in our country.

Michael Brown would have ran over your guys, who knows, could have easily killed your cops.

Instead we have a dead criminal, what the problem?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Crazy post.....
If somebody you love was shot by accident and you got a letter from the Police Authority politely explaining that these accidents do happen, but that obviously police have to make sure that they get home safe each day........ you might then see how upside down your thinking is.

Is this your logical reasoning for why cops shouldnt use deadly force at all? If so it is completely void of moral accountability. Would you say that no one should kill anyone in wars because we're afraid to offend the parents of terrorists while their son is beheading innocent people?

I won't call your approach stupid as you have done to others but I see no good reason to follow your approach over mine.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

An operative's ability to cope with high conflict, stress, fear and duress can alter over time. This is well known. Therefore ops need much more time and money spent on their counselling, training reviews, rest and recuperation, and if it costs money then it costs money. Which part of this do you find as difficult to understand?

Each incident is an individual case. What do you do for a living?



Our police mostly have metal batons and pepper or CS sprays. Your post looks aggressive about my suggestion for more counselling, retraining, rest and recuperation for police officers...... why?

When you call others stupid and brag about your country I have to call you out on that. Your way is the only way, right? What does stress training do to protect a cop from a criminal with a gun or who is physically assaulting people?

 

[oldbadger]

It does not.


Maybe he thinks our cops who work in areas close to combat zones, have no right to protect themselves.


Lets send him to Los Angeles or Oakland and see how he does.

What an ignorant post......
Because I promote better counselling and training reviews, plus stress-coping assessments for these very same officers, you post rubbish like the above.

I'll bet these ops all wear body armour now, even in summer, so this can give them some additional feelings of security in each and every encounter. Under 40 US law enforcement officers were killed last year, a member has posted.

If we put you on the streets of those cities, armed, then I can't imagine how many catastrophies there might be.....

 

[oldbadger]

When you call others stupid and brag about your country I have to call you out on that. Your way is the only way, right?

I did not brag about my country. I just quoted stats.

I have not called your posts stupid. Leave other members to stand up for themselves..... yes?

That member called 99.9% of all people killed by police as 'scum' which is not true...... a bigger % than that were innocents.

So stress training will do what to protect a cop from a criminal with a gun or who is physically assaulting people?

No.... not stress training....... stress accumulation assessment.
If you were put through a 'shoot or don't shoot' test, calm and collected, then you would get a result. Now put you through some severe activity and stress and let you take the test again......... see how you do. That's just an insight......

Now if you had been in high conflict situation each day for a year, such a test might or might not be more difficult for you. Which part of this is difficult?

 

[oldbadger]

Your cops would all be killed the first day in our country.

Says it all about your country........ if you're right. But what do you know about it? I think you're an armchair critic.

Michael Brown would have ran over your guys, who knows, could have easily killed your cops.

What has that to do with my suggestions about more care, attention and training for police?

Instead we have a dead criminal, what the problem?

What's the problem? Well, Ferguson and other areas are now the problem. Stick to what you do, might be best. Such a comment as the above shows the members everything that they need to know about you.

 

[oldbadger]

Instead of just focusing on law enforcement, I'd say tougher sentences for criminals is an incentive to stop certain crimes as well. In Saudi Arabia you get your hands cut off for stealing. Let's guess what their rate of theft is

That's a different subject........ that'sw about justice and legislation.

This is about ops on the street, stressed out, frightened and not always supported, with low care and recuperation, who need (IMO) more back up, training reviews, counselling, assessment reviews, care and recuperation.

I know about day-by-day arresting of thieves, not knowing what might happen in each case.

You never know what's going to happen. You can never relax. Even if you have to approach a little lady who has stolen £30 value of items from a store it is not safe, because the car nearby might be holding her three huge ugly sons. (I've had that one!)

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I did not brag about my country. I just quoted stats.

I have not called your posts stupid. Leave other members to stand up for themselves..... yes?

That member called 99.9% of all people killed by police as 'scum' which is not true...... a bigger % than that were innocents.



No.... not stress training....... stress accumulation assessment.
If you were put through a 'shoot or don't shoot' test, calm and collected, then you would get a result. Now put you through some severe activity and stress and let you take the test again......... see how you do. That's just an insight......

Now if you had been in high conflict situation each day for a year, such a test might or might not be more difficult for you. Which part of this is difficult?

OK. So it affects how someone could respond to a situation. But again, that does not explain or prevent situations where a cop may have to use deadly force.