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Featured Fallen Angels

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    Are we all fallen angels; if we descended from heaven and are to ascend to heaven?


    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    John 3:13
    No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
     
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  2. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus is the only winner who went to heaven maybe we ought to forget the whole loser deal, and enjoy life on earth till we have to pack our bags for hell upon death.
     
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  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    yoke = yoga

    yoke

    yoga

    Matthew 11:28-30
    “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
     
  4. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
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    I see there, that this a confusion of sheep and cattle,
    and a very large variance in the size of one's yokes !
    One must measure the immensity of one's burden to share that yoke,
    doesn't one ?
    I don't really know...I'm just guessing.
     
  5. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    No, we are not fallen angels. We are humans, unique among the created beings for being created in the triune image of God, with a mind/soul (Father), a body (Son) and a Spirit. Angels and demons have spirit and soul, animals have bodies and spirit, but we are the only critters to share all three aspects with God.

    Yes, our bodies are mortal and are destroyed in the first death (what we usually call death), and our spirit is immortal (returning to its source--God--upon our death), but our souls need to be saved, or they will perish in the second death (Rev. 20:14).

    That's because people don't go to heaven when they die. Nobody you know who has died is in heaven. They are currently sleeping in their graves, until they will be resurrected for judgement. Of course, to the dead person, it seems like an instant process (much like the first 13 billion years of the universe's existence went by without your notice), but for us still trapped in the confines of spacetime, they are just dead.

    Now AFTER the resurrection, that's when the pearly gates will be open for business.
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    so you don't agree that these are angels?


    John 1:51
    He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man.”

    you don't believe the Spirit enters through the fontanel?



    in hebrew a spirit is without an earthly, or carnal body. a soul, has a carnal body. you seem to be mixing spirit with the same idea as soul. in greek, a spirit and soul are not the same thing either.



    pneuma = spirit = ruach


    soul = nephesh



    the flesh, body is a grave.

    Revelation 3:2
    Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God.
     
  7. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    Agree that WHAT are angels? Angels are angels; humans are not angels, nor do humans become angels when they die.

    The spirit doesn't "enter" anything. Spirit is the impersonal force that makes inanimate matter alive--the "breath of life" breathed into the physical body of Adam (mankind) by God in Genesis 2:7.

    I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think spirit and soul are the same thing, when I just explained that we are created in the triune image of God, with a body, soul and spirit. Clearly, I think they are three different aspects of our being. I just described spirit as the force that makes inanimate matter alive, which comes from God. The soul is our mind, our personality, that which makes us "us," and it develops along with the development of the brain. Our bodies are mortal, our spirit is immortal (it returns to God upon our death), and our souls can be saved.
     
  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Psalms 82:6-7 I said, “You are Elohim, all of you are sons of the Most High. (7) Nevertheless you shall die like men, and fall like one of the rulers.” :innocent:
     
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  9. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Are you Christian? Or are you one of several Buddhist/Hindus I've observed here trying to reinterpret Judeo/Christian doctrine to relate it to your Buddhist/Hindu beliefs?
     
  10. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    In Islam angels do not have freewill and obey God. In Islam, man was made from clay, from dust matter, solidified into a human being and of course God provided a soul for man. Mankind was a separate essence from angel and Djinn. Or do you not consider the other Abrahamic account as presented in Islam?
     
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    i'm part of the all in ALL.

    i was raised christian

    i can't deny the obvious.....abraham = brahma, sarah, or sara, = sarasvatti, or hagar =bhaggar.

    buddhist missionaries were already in alexandria during the time of jesus' experience in egypt.

    a lot got swapped along the spice/silk road.


    zoroastrianism; especially
     
  12. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I notice people here that are "free spirited" do not mention Islam, nor Sikhism (another monotheistic) nor even Judaism so this "I am the one in all" stuff kinda baffles me. Islam is just as much a part of the fold as Judaism but I find that nobody among the fold of Hinduism and Buddhism references Judaism nor Islam. I'm starting to think that colonial influences among those that believe in Hindu/Buddhist beliefs has a lot to do with this, but that is just a theory. Becareful because philosophically Hinduism and Buddhism from a theological standpoint is contrary to Judeo/Christian and Islamic beliefs.
     
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  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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  14. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    i've not studied sikhism. i don't try to utilize it

    all in all is hermetic. associated with melchizedek. it refers to the name, exodus 3:14.

    melchizedek = hermes


    hermeticism = alchemy. cham, or ham was the son of noah. he begat canaan. melchizedek was the son of canaan, and a canaanite. cham was an ancient name for egypt. egypt, along with sodom, were allegorically known as a furnace. out of egypt, or the furnace, i called my son.

    MELCHIZEDEK - JewishEncyclopedia.com

    the ineffable name
    nuk pu nuk = egyptian geb the great cackler - goose
    ahmi yat ahmi - zoroastrian
    ahea ashur ahea - chaldean
    tat tvam asi - hindu
    neti, neti - buddhist
    ehyeh asher ehyeh - judaism
     
    #14 Fool, Mar 12, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  15. Axe Elf

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    No, I just used it in a different sense. When I say that the life force which makes inanimate matter alive (the spirit) does not enter into anything, I'm talking about babies in the womb--real, literal babies and real, literal wombs. The tissue that forms a fetus (or even a zygote) is already alive--it already has spirit--spirit doesn't need to "enter through the fontanel" after the baby is formed but before birth.

    When I quoted Genesis 2:7, I was quoting the allegory of God breathing life "into" Adam, which basically is just a way of talking about how the inanimate matter of man (the dust of the earth) is made to be alive. But even if you believe that Adam was a real person and God actually did breathe life into him, surely you would recognize that the creation of Adam, as a full-grown man, would be different from the creation of every other human as a fetus, don't you? God doesn't go around blowing life into every fetus one by one; as I said, they are already alive.

    No, you did not state that spirit and soul are the same thing, but you accused ME of doing so (and I quote): "you seem to be mixing spirit with the same idea as soul. in greek, a spirit and soul are not the same thing either." So I was demonstrating to you that I did indeed know the difference.

    Maybe we need a refresher here. Spirit is nothing more than the breath of life, the force by which inanimate matter is made alive (Genesis 2:7). Spirit is immortal; its source is God, and it returns to God upon death, when animate matter is made inanimate again (Ecclesiastes 12:7). There is no sense of the individual or "self" in spirit; it is just the force of life.

    The soul is the mind (not the brain), which includes your personality, beliefs, memories, thoughts--everything about you that makes you "you." Like bodies, souls are mortal, but can be saved. If they are not, then they will perish in the second death (Revelation 20:14), and everything will be just like before you were born--nonexistence. If your soul is saved, then "you" will live forever in the presence of God.
     
  16. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    personalities do not survive. when the people asked john; if he were elijah, he told them no. when the disciples told jesus that elijah must come first, jesus said he already had. john was elijah in a former life. in this life he wasn't . neither jesus nor john lied. jesus was melchizedek in another life, thus he is a high priest forever after the pattern of melchizedek.

    so no, the personality does not survive. the soul is a personality. the memories, the mind, spirit is eternal the persons aren't. forms aren't eternal. minds, or spirit, are.
     
    #16 Fool, Mar 12, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    This is because Judaism was wrong about many things, and the Hebraic religious texts say contrary; thus Elohim in my understanding originally means something similar to Avatars in Hinduism or Arch Angels in Zoroastrianism.

    Thus Islam is a copy of what Judaism believed, not what the prophets stated about Yeshua; as they actually say he is the Son of the Most High, i.e. an Arch Angel, Elohim, Elder, Avatar, Ascended Master, etc..
    Islam has muddled up lots of theological concepts, from not knowing all the contexts well enough.
    See this is what i mean, that point dictates something different to Enoch with the rebellion of the angels or that Avatars are capable of independent thought, and that the Arch Angels in Zoroastrianism created reality...

    Which is what we find in Genesis written the Elohim created reality, and the Most High is separate to it, like a CPU manifesting reality at a quantum level.

    In my opinion
    . :innocent:
     
    #17 wizanda, Mar 13, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  18. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    I don't see how one would infer this is about people being fallen angels. I think it's about people having one unified nature, despite the appearing of forms.

    Ecclesiastes is my favorite Bible book.
     
  19. Electra

    Electra l'attendue

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    The Khabs is in the Khu
     
  20. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    some think of hell as downcast, low place and heaven as an uplift, or high place.

    god the most high, if omnipresent, is found in lowly places too.
     
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