Faith

[Jeremiah Ames]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

 

[Kenny]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

My thoughts:

Works are born by one's faith but faith comes by hearing..

Like a dad who keeps saying to his child... "YOU CAN DO IT!" and keeps saying it until the child actually believes his dad. When he/she finally has the faith in what his/her father said, a work is born by the action he/she took out of faith,

 

[Maximus]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

Ephesians 2:8-9
James 2:26

 

[leov]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

One side of the coin faith is beacon out of spirit world the other side is human reaction or lack of it.

 

[metis]

As some know my experiences of what brought me back to Christianity that had much to do with repeated premonitions I had that went on for almost two years, I truly came to believe that this was the Holy Spirit dragging me back. However, with that being said, it still was my choice through "free will" to return.

However, with that being said, I don't believe our "calling", or whatever one wants to call it, only relates to just one religion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Where does it come from?

My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.

Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

I see it is a gift from God. The gift is given by the Messenger of God and becomes the longing of our heart, that longing becomes submission unto God's Will and brings the fruit of selfless deeds.

Regards Tony

 

[lukethethird]

Faith is exploited by the religious.

 

[Valjean]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.

Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

1. How are you defining "faith?
2. Rather than obtaining faith, shouldn't we be trying to obtain knowledge, and converting what faith we have into knowledge?

 

[MonkeyFire]

Faith is like fire, it can burn you down, but at the same time all life depends on it. You can't have light without the fire.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Ephesians 2:8-9
James 2:26

O no.
Verses.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

1. How are you defining "faith?
2. Rather than obtaining faith, shouldn't we be trying to obtain knowledge, and converting what faith we have into knowledge?

Ok.
Let me elaborate on what you say, in my view.
Truth leads to knowledge, then to understanding, then to belief. This is faith.
Probably somewhat equivalent to what you said.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Faith is like fire, it can burn you down, but at the same time all life depends on it. You can't have light without the fire.

My analogy is the sun. It is a big ball of fire, but we get light and heat from it.
In the middle of winter in the northern regions, you get a lot of light, but little heat. So nothing grows. Everything lies dormant. Like us, if we have the light of wisdom, but no warmth of love, we cannot produce fruit, we’re dormant.
And in the heat of summer in the tropical regions, we find vast deserts. Like us, if we have goodwill in our hearts, but lack wisdom, how fruitful can we be.
It’s a balance of the two. And they must both be there.

 

[halbhh]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

Most people would say 'evil' is to knowingly, intentionally harm others for reasons like spite or greed or such. To intentionally break "Do to others as you would have others do to you".

"Faith" can mean a lot of different things, but very generally it seems to mean to most people a belief about something not obvious or merely factual.

For instance, to "have faith in human nature" would be to "believe human nature has very good qualities that are for the best in the long run" for example.

Or to have "faith in America" would mean to believe America will win through and come around to the Good, over time. That America would tend to come back to its Ideals, time and again, instead of going irreversibly into deeper wrongs, like happened in Germany once in the 1930s, and variously in so many other nations at other times (and in America in smaller ways at times).

 

[Galateasdream]

I see the good type of faith as the optimistic predisposition to favour the positive over the negative, and act upon that predisposition, and keep loyalty to that ideal even in the teeth of hardship, when faced with serious existential issues of roughly equal likelihood and unlikelihood.

For example, the issue of Gods existence seems a serious existential issue without having a clear, obvious answer of yes He exists or no He doesn't. Faith is then favouring the optimistic, that God exists, and living accordingly over time, even when that brings certain difficulties.

 

[bobhikes]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

Faith is the basis of all knowledge. Without faith you could never learn. Faith alone could never lead you astray. It is faith unsubstantiated that people act on that leads people astray.

 

[halbhh]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

(update -- whoops, just got it the OP isn't saying what it seemed at first, so this below isn't really an answer to the OP anymore.... But i'll leave it cause it had something useful in a different way for a different question, had that other question been asked. )

----------------------------
So, in view of those realities just above, I think your real culprit here is...something more like ideology.

Or maybe....it's having faith in an ideology (!).

To have faith in an ideology, instead of people or ideals or the Sublime.

 

[MonkeyFire]

My analogy is the sun. It is a big ball of fire, but we get light and heat from it.
In the middle of winter in the northern regions, you get a lot of light, but little heat. So nothing grows. Everything lies dormant. Like us, if we have the light of wisdom, but no warmth of love, we cannot produce fruit, we’re dormant.
And in the heat of summer in the tropical regions, we find vast deserts. Like us, if we have goodwill in our hearts, but lack wisdom, how fruitful can we be.
It’s a balance of the two. And they must both be there.

I believe in science and reason.

 

[halbhh]

Where does it come from?


My thoughts: From the good works that we do. So, I see faith alone as an evil insanity created by the Devil to lead people astray. Makes people believe that they don’t actually have to DO anything.


Also, can we do anything to obtain faith, or is out of our hands?

What say you?

Whoa!

I just re-read your post for the 3rd time, and suddenly realized what you are aiming to say to us!

What a different meaning!

It wasn't a easy to understand wording. Now I get it you mean the faith- without-works (or maybe better!-- "faith without fruits") problem.

I thought you were saying something like 'faith is the source of evil' or some such anti-religious screed.

------------

Yes, that faith-and-no-good works idea that faith saves without there ever being any clear result/outcome/evidence of that faith in someone's life, no fruits -- absence of "love one another" love, forgiving, and more...

That new twist is sorta like a bad 'prosperity gospel', turning the aim of the gospel on its head, canceling the gospel.

We are saved to do good works Paul wrote. It's great to get all 3 verses of the famous quote:

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2 NIV
(or even better, all 10 verses)

 

[halbhh]

I believe in science and reason.

Hey I think like 90% of people believe in figuring out how things work and in being logical at least sometimes. Ok, let me say 80%. Still, a lot. So, you are with us, and we are with you. Really, and that's a good cause for optimism also.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Ok.
Let me elaborate on what you say, in my view.
Truth leads to knowledge, then to understanding, then to belief. This is faith.
Probably somewhat equivalent to what you said.

Through the indwelling Holy Spirit there comes another deep form of faith [1 Corinthians 12:9], itself a manifestation of God's presence.