Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Robert.Evans]

You are, in point of fact, looking to prove the unprovable by inflating your own ego. What an abysmal waste of your time, what an abysmal waste of time for anyone else to participate in.

Yet you did. Now what does that mean I wonder?

 

[Serenity7855]

What made you give up the good fight?

You seem to to be saying this with an air of sarcasm. When a fight produces positive results it is indeed a good fight.

I found
There are some assumptions in that sentence that, though I agree with the conclusion, render it somewhat pablum-ish.

Well, that is your opinion.

I couldn't agree more.

Well, it is nice to see we agree on something.

No, we are not "co-equals" that is the biggest fallacy of this entire discussion.

Being coequal is not a premise in this debate. It was purely intended to show that you disbelieve equally as much as I believe.

It is only through the pretense that we start off in equal places that you even get a say, and that's dishonest ... can you really stack your (possible) personal delusions up against the accumulated wisdom of modern man? That's a powerful lot of egotism, if you ask me (which you didn't).

I do not consider that I am delusional and to make such a judgement, based on words on a forum, is a little bit offensive, don't you think?

So, I have enlightened you as to my delusions, so we are left with my egotism. God is omniscient, knowing all that can be known. Mankind is still in kindergarten when compared with the knowledge possessed by God.

As I observed in another thread:[/QUOTE)]

That was then, this is now.

Something you seem quite unfamiliar with.

As familiar as you are about Christianity.

A singularly false analogy.

Maybe you could point out for us the false analogy?

You make the assumption that scripture and the Plan of Salvation is something demonstrably real ... it is not.

I make no such assumption. I am very much aware that the plan of salvation has no tangible evidence. It is a premise by which false religions can be detected. It is only possible for the individual, who has been genuinely converted by the Holy Ghost, to have evidence given to them by direct revelation provided by the Holy Ghost. To that end I agree with you that it is not demonstrable to the masses, just the individuals.

Please be aware that I am debating the logical and rational aspects of the plan of Salvation that gives a reason to our existence. The plausibility of the existence of such a plan.

This poor sots personal testimony is every bit as good as yours.

No, it exposes him as a fraud, whether intentional or not. Take out one piece of the puzzle and the whole thing collapses. It is an impossibility, according to Gods plan, for imperfection to dwell with perfection. Physically and spiritually.

... not to mention makes you immune to logic.

Once again, your opinion.

Not my problem, you go ahead and knock yourself out trying to prove it, but don't expect your proof to come from the logical fallacy of argumentum e silentio. Many will choose to not play your game, that does not prove your assumptions.

I am not trying to prove anything. I cannot prove my belief. If I said that I could then I to would be a fraud. I am asking for the ardent disbeliever to find a loop whole in the Plan of Redemption that makes it irrational and illogical. That you indicate that you are incapable of fulfilling the task only strengthens the plan, thank you.

You are, in point of fact, looking to prove the unprovable by inflating your own ego. What an abysmal waste of your time, what an abysmal waste of time for anyone else to participate in.

As I have said, I seek to prove nothing. I cannot do that. As for my ego, my knowledge comes from God, via the Holy Ghost. I claim no credit but give the glory to God, who has taught me all that I know.

I have not forced your response.

 

[Cephus]

But you must prove that your luck and magic is true... does that work??

If I believed in luck or magic, yes. I don't.

 

[Cephus]

But intelligence is a better answer than luck and magic me thinks

Where did you get this luck and magic thing? I haven't seen anyone mention it at all.

 

[Serenity7855]

This should be a simple enough question. What is salvation?

Well, as a Christian you must know that there is a simplistic answer and a complex one. Simply, salvation is a gift given to us by Jesus Christ when he was resurrected by the father. All of mankind will be immortalized receiving a perfect edifice in which to dwell. It does not mean, as born again Christians claim, that all we need do is confess that Jesus is the Christ and we will all gain entry into the kingdom of God. That is poor interpretation and false doctrine. It says that mankind will be saved without works. We do what ever we like because we have accepted Christ as our redeemer. It borders on satanic. It is what Satan wants you to believe. Salvation is a gift to us all requiring no comittment what so ever. Eternal life, in the presence of God, requires adherence to the commandments and striving to follow the Saviour.

This is a huge subject that would take the thread way off course. The misconceptions that have attracted born agains, in their droves, can be disproved, but i fear that time is a constraint here.

Your question causes one to conclude that you are a Born again Christian. Sadly, if true, our beliefs are to far apart to make any reconciliations on our doctrines.

 

[Serenity7855]

Are you really or are you just looking for a foil against which to present your own beliefs? If you are really sincere then be careful what you ask for. It make rock your world. Is your faith strong enough to absorb such a blow?

If my faith can be rocked then I have it all wrong and though I will be disappointed I would rather live by the truth then by a lie. I am a devout Christian of some fourth years. I have tried in earnest to fault the Plan of redemption and find a fault. I have never come close. No one has ever fulfilled the challenge either. If I sound over confident then i apologise but I am only coming across that way because no one has succeeded in finding any anomalies in the plan.

Oh, I never preach to the disbeliever. I have come to the conclusion that you have to want to believe, nobody can force it on you. Pure personal choice. Ask me a question, though, and I will give you an answer.

 

[Serenity7855]

Nobody has to disprove the "plan" that was supposedly devised by God, it is up to you, the one claiming that such exists, to prove that it is true. Let us know when you plan to actually do so. Thanks.

I cannot prove it so I have been careful not to make any claims. I am asking you, if you are a disbeliever, to show where you cannot see why Christians believe in the Plan of Redemption. What do you see that is so fantastically rediculous that it causes you all to object to the belief of Christians when they believe in a perfectly logical and rational ethos

 

[Serenity7855]

A rational and logical plan - written by man - is not proof of any God.

*

I am not trying to prove anything. I can't. Proof of god can only be obtained by you.

The scriptures were written by men who were inspired by God and then compiled by the same influence.

 

[Serenity7855]

It's hard to stump people who who are self convinced by reading a book. It's not like anything is going to change by personal religious convictions. ;0)

Do you really believe that one can be converted to Christianity by just reading the bible? It is not that easy.

 

[viole]

Nothing UNclean will ever be allowed to be in the presence of Infinitely Holy God. Heaven where Almighty God resides is so Holy that no sin bearing person will ever dare to enter it. It would be like a south pole of a magnet trying to get close to a south pole of a magnet. The closer it gets the more powerful the repelling.

It seems as if Adam and Eve did not carry any magnets with them. God's proximity does not seem to have repelled a lot. I mean, He was just behind the corner and the only two human exemplars who could possibly sin, did in fact sin.

100% failure rate.

That does not bode well for the several millions that will be promoted to Heaven, allegedely.


Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Do you really believe that one can be converted to Christianity by just reading the bible? It is not that easy.

The same with the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It is not necessary to read it to become a pastafarian. It is much more complicated than that. The theological implications of pastafarianism are stunning and despite repetetive attempts to ridicule it, it is still here.Unscathed.

It also seems to be validated by the most recent discoveries in physics. String theory is a typical example. It postulates that all that exists is the manifestation of elementary indivisible vibrating noodles. It really looks like the whole universei is in the image of God (noodles). Us included (lots of noodles). That is powerful evidence that we are really in the image of God.

Btw, I also tried several time to rationally disprove the FSM gospel, being an atheist, alas, without success. I guess being a pastafarian is a rational position too, then.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Robert.Evans]

If I believed in luck or magic, yes. I don't.

That is all you have

 

[Robert.Evans]

The same with the gospel of the flying spaghetti monster. It is not necessary to read it to become a pastafarian. It is much more complicated than that. The theological implications of pastafarianism are stunning and despite repetetive attempts to ridicule it, it is still here.Unscathed.

It also seems to be validated by the most recent discoveries in physics. String theory is a typical example. It postulates that all that exists is the manifestation of elementary indivisible vibrating noodles. It really looks like the whole universei is in the image of God (noodles). Us included (lots of noodles). That is powerful evidence that we are really in the image of God.

Btw, I also tried several time to rationally disprove the FSM gospel, being an atheist, alas, without success. I guess being a pastafarian is a rational position too, then.

Ciao

- viole

the flying spaghetti monster is a ridiculously weak argument. God is conscious energy and is a good answer backed up with evidence. Taking an argument down to that level shows something about you, but it is not wisdom.

 

[Robert.Evans]

It seems as if Adam and Eve did not carry any magnets with them. God's proximity does not seem to have repelled a lot. I mean, He was just behind the corner and the only two human exemplars who could possibly sin, did in fact sin.

100% failure rate.

That does not bode well for the several millions that will be promoted to Heaven, allegedely.


Ciao

- viole

It was the feminine that transgressed.

 

[viole]

the flying spaghetti monster is a ridiculously weak argument. God is conscious energy and is a good answer backed up with evidence. Taking an argument down to that level shows something about you, but it is not wisdom.

Hold your horses. The FSM is also conscious energy. The energy is manifested in the vibration modes of His noodly appendages and can be measured by using Fourier analysis.

Now. Talking of wisdom. Show me evidence or logic that shows that your version of God is less ridicolous than that. Saying that is weak without evidence is not taking you anywhere.

What is it?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Robert.Evans]

I do not consider that I am delusional and to make such a judgement, based on words on a forum, is a little bit offensive, don't you think?

I am not sure, but I think being offensive on a forum is legally binding... haha

 

[Robert.Evans]

Hold your horses. The FSM is also conscious energy. The energy is manifested in the vibration modes of Hos noodly tentacles.

You have no evidence for it though, nor do you believe it. Silly.

 

[viole]

You have no evidence for it though, nor do you believe it. Silly.

Nope. I do not believe it. I am an atheist, you know.

But you believe in something that has exactly the same evidence.

And that, is silly, I am afraid.

Ciao

- viole

 

[McBell]

Evidence comes from God, not man.

Bold empty claim

Your argument is hollow.

What argument do you claim is hollow?

Prove luck and magic bring everything into being... and I mean everything

Like a child with the box his new toy came in, you are stuck on your strawman.

 

[McBell]

Then you stick with your luck and magic

Luck and magic is YOUR strawman, not mine.