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Featured Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I admit that I would like to play by the rules. Any "off topic" issues which is apart from what the topic starter posts should be categorized as such. But if you have another topic it should have a new thread since it is a new thought.

    Otherwise it would be fake wrestling, which have no rules.
    [​IMG]

    Which I am not really a fan of it.

    If there are other alleged Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus which people would like to raise, I would be happy to answer. I hope I have answered the 3 verses in question Matthew 10:21-23:/ Matthew 16:27-28 and Luke 21:29-32 satisfactorily.

    Thank you.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    No, the biblical authors should. They can add that to biology, geology, etc.

    A salesperson WOULD say something like that. "Here, this car is awesome and purrs like a kitt ... NO, DON'T CHECK CARFAX! ARRRGH!"

    And yet Jesus didn't come back.

    Israel's not a big place. Hitting the major towns shouldn't be a problem. Ein Tamar to Ashdod is a 32 hour walk per google maps. That's going from the eastern border to the western border. You can probably hit every single town/city in less than a year, by FOOT.

    Why are there sick people? The centurion said Jesus can command sickness to leave no matter where he is. Why not just wish away all sickness before the crucifixion? Why can't John the Baptist get healed? Is this how like televangelists claim to cure sickness but, like the bible, the sicknesses are always never confirmed and never followed up and the sickness was vague anyway?

    Jesus said to let my light shine, which means I don't need him, do I?

    Why a false Christian? Why can't I follow the Way while realizing the bible was written by self-serving and confused (assumed) men? I don't worship the text, after all, but the deity.

    So, when Jesus comes back and says "I am he" ... will he be shocked to see no one believe him?
     
  3. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I heard a lot of twist but those ones are different.

    Come on baby
    Let's do the twist
    Come on baby
    Let's do the twist
    Take me by my little hand
    And go like this

    [​IMG]

    I'm pretty sure we are discussing if whether or not there are
    Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus
    Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Tuesday at 7:36 AM.

    I hope people would either prove or disprove if there are failed NT prophecies, concentrating mainly on this line.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Well you failed in your attempt to answer the questions. You could not do so properly. And excuses are not answers. Let's go over the prophecies, what they say, and when they failed.
     
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  5. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    People love to taunt, nice. Hahaha!. :D

    [​IMG]

    Please show and tell.
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Only when others earn it.

    When you are ready to debate properly I will gladly participate.
     
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  7. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Moving on and we are moving....
     
  8. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    If you define an atheist as someone who doesn't believe in God, then I was an atheist most of my life. I certainly wouldn't have associated myself with the religious, whom I thought of as ignorant, hypocritical, self righteous, intellectually retarded annoyances. However, after over 22 years online as a believer in the Bible who has dealt primarily with atheist vs. believer debates, I remain silent for the most part.

    The Bible doesn't teach the second coming of Christ, after all, what would be the point?
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    If you had taken notice in Matthew 16:28, That Jesus said ( There be some standing here)

    Therefore Jesus wasn't just talking to his
    12 disciples, but to those other people who were standing there also.

    Furthermore Matthew 16:27-28 and
    Matthew 10:21-23, has nothing at all, to do with the second coming of Christ Jesus.
    As you suppose it is.

    Seeing that Jesus said ( there be some standing here )
    Care to explain exactly how those people got from there, to the second coming of Christ Jesus.
    That alone should tell people that
    Matthew 16:27-28 and Matthew 10:21-23, is not about the second coming of Christ Jesus.

    All your doing is showing yourself of not knowing anything about what is Prophecy and what is not Prophecy.
     
    #49 Faithofchristian, Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  10. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Well said.

    The majority of the religious are as ignorant, hypocritical, self righteous, intellectually retarded annoyances. They are ignorant because the Bible teaches this and they go the other way. They are hypocritical but they ask their flock to pay for their jets. They are self righteous instead of following the righteousness of God, I agree they are intellectually retarded annoyances like in the video below:


    However, the Bible does teach the second coming of Christ and the point is in:

    Revelation 22:12-16 New International Version (NIV)
    Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

    I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

    [​IMG]

    Are there any other Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus
    That needed to be disproved or proven?
     
  11. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    It definitely is about the second coming of Jesus. Again, read the context.
     
  12. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    That video was at least extremely entertaining. Oh, I miss Christopher Hitchens, though, it's a pity he never knew the Bible like he did religion and politics.

    The Greek word for coming is eleusis (Acts 7:52) Nowhere in scripture does it say Jesus would return in the flesh. The idea of a second coming isn't found until the second century C.E.

    Matthew 24:3. Greek presence τὸ σημεῖον τῆς σῆς παρουσίας

    There is no mention of a second advent, or coming in scripture. The Greek word, in every case, is parousia. It was something peculiar, having never occurred before or again. The word means presence, but is used not in the literal sense but in spirit. Israel P. Warren, D.D.'s work, The Parousia:

    “Had our translators done with this technical word ‘parousia’ as they did with ‘baptisma,’—transferring it unchanged,—or if translated using its exact etymological equivalent, presence, and had it been well understood, as it then would have been, that there is no such thing as a ‘second Presence,’ I believe that the entire doctrine would have been different from what it now is. The phrases, ‘second advent,’ and ‘second coming,’ would never have been heard of. The church would have been taught to speak of THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, as that from which its hopes were to be realized, whether in the near future or at the remotest period,—that under which the world was to be made new, a resurrection both spiritual and corporeal should be attained, and justice and everlasting awards administered.” - Portland, Maine (1879), p.15

    Now, Jesus was a man who was born, through immaculate conception, on Earth for a specific purpose. But he existed in heaven before that as the spirit creature, Michael. He came down to earth, in human form prior to Jesus and in another human form after 3 days in the grave. That's why some of his followers didn't recognize him, but the man Jesus was dead, his body taken away. No need to return as Jesus.
     
  13. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Of course there is. Matthew 16:27 states "the son of man is going to come in his father's glory with his angels and then he will reward each person according to what he has done." This is obviously a reference to a second coming and judgment, and of course the next sentence states that it will happen within the lifetimes of the people standing there listening to him.
     
  14. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    The following is an old post I made on an old website, and it's been posted all over the internet, but I thought I would repost it here.

    A Response To Will Jesus' Second Coming Be Visible To All?

    The SAB raises the question of whether or not Jesus' return would be visible to all. This response concludes that his return would be visible but not in the manner in which is often thought. The Bible never indicates that Jesus would return in physical form, but that he would return his attention back to Earth, where he would be in spirit. Jesus' return is often thought to be in the physical form of a man, but scripture never speaks of his return in such a manner.

    In order to establish a contradiction the SAB uses John 14:19 in support that Jesus return would not be visible and parallel accounts given at Matthew 24:30 / Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27 as well as Revelation 1:7 in support that his return would be visible.

    John 14:19 - Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    Jesus was telling his disciples that the world would see him no more because he would be put to death, but they would see him again because he would be resurrected and he would resurrect them in spirit upon their deaths. The verse has nothing to do with his return to Earth. Paul later confirms this by saying that, in spirit form no man has seen Jesus and none will, unless they be changed into spirit form. (1 Timothy 6:14-16 / 2 Corinthians 5:14 / 1 Peter 3:18)

    At Matthew 24:30 the Greek word horao is translated "see" but can also mean to discern. A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, says of horao "metaphorically, of mental sight, discern, perceive." - 1948 edition, pages 1244, 1245. This metaphorical perception can also be confirmed by Paul's use of horao at Romans 1:20 where things are invisible yet perceived.

    Clouds, like those mentioned in the verses given by the SAB are typically used in a symbolic sense to signify the presence of God (Isaiah 63:9 / 1 Kings 8:10-12)

    The SAB then says: "Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 without clouds, glory, or being seen by anyone.

    Thanks to the WatchTower Society for pointing out this contradiction. (Reasoning From the Scriptures, p. 313, 342-3)"

    Response: From page 313 of that Watchtower publication it says: "Jesus foretold: "Then they will see the Son of man [Jesus Christ] coming in a cloud with power and great glory." (Luke 21:27 RSV) In no way does this statement or similar ones in other texts contradict what Jesus said as recorded at John 14:19. Consider: At Mount Sinai, what occurred when God 'came to the people in a thick cloud,' as stated at Exodus 19:9 (RSV)? God was invisibly present; the people of Israel saw visible evidence of his presence, but none of them actually saw God with their eyes. So, too, when Jesus said that he would come "in a cloud," he must have meant that he would be invisible to human eyes but that humans would be aware of his presence. They would "see" him with their mental eyes, discerning the fact that he was present."
     
  15. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    You're really stretching things. The second coming is obviously supposed to be visible, and was supposed to occur during the disciples' lifetimes. Again, read the context of the verses in my original thread.
     
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  16. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    And verse 28 tells you what?

    Here, again, is an old post by me from an old website A Response to The SAB What The Bible Says About The End Of The World.

    The SAB indicates that, according to the Bible, the end would come within the lifetime of Jesus' listeners. I will demonstrate why this is not the case by explaining the verses they use to conclude this. They mistake the transfiguration, the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus being at the right hand of power, and John's Revelation at Patmos.

    Matthew 16:28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Also see Mark 9:1 / Luke 9:27)

    The Interpreter's Bible says: "The prediction was not fulfilled, and later Christians found it necessary to explain that it was metaphorical."

    What believers and skeptics alike seem to have glossed over is the fact that in the very next verse Matthew reveals that just 6 days later this prophecy was fulfilled. Peter, James and John witnessed the transfiguration. (Matthew 17:1-2 / Luke 9:27-36 / 2 Peter 1:16-18)

    Matthew 23:36 - Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (Also see Matthew 24:34 / Mark 13:30 / Luke 21:32)

    All of the above verses differ from the verses given in consideration of Matthew 16:28. British scholar G. R. Beasley-Murray: "The phrase 'this generation' should cause no difficulty for interpreters. While admittedly genea in earlier Greek meant birth, progeny, and so race, . . . in the [Greek Septuagint] it most frequently translated the Hebrew term dor, meaning age, age of humankind, or generation in the sense of contemporaries. . . . In sayings attributed to Jesus the term appears to have a twofold connotation: on the one hand it always signifies his contemporaries, and on the other hand it always carries an implicit criticism."

    So Jesus could have been directing that statement to the Jewish opposition there around him at that time, who, within a generation would see the destruction of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 C.E. by Titus, the son of Emperor Vespasian where 1,100,000 Jews died and 97,000 were taken captive, most of whom died horrible deaths and the Christians who knew it would come were saved. (Matthew 24:16, 22) And Jesus may have been applying the same to those in opposition in the future as well.

    Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62 are parallel accounts to one another and you won't have to wait or look far to see them fulfilled. Acts 7:55-56: "But he, being full of holy spirit gazed into heaven and caught sight of God's glory and of Jesus standing at God's right hand, and he said: "Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God's right hand." Also see Psalm 110:1 / Luke 22:69 / Ephesians 1:20 / Colossians 3:1.

    John 21:20-23 is somewhat interesting. Jesus may have been telling Peter that John would live longer than him, and in fact John would live 70 years, but also he might have been referring to the prophetic vision that John was given at the end of his life while in exile on the island of Patmos. As recorded in the book of Revelation John was transported to "the Lords day." (Revelation 1:1, 10; Revelation 22:20)

    [SAB] The end will come within the lifetime of the New Testament authors.

    Response: Jesus taught his followers that no one, not even Jesus himself, knew the time of the end of the world. (Matthew 24:36 / Mark 13:32 / Acts 1:7)

    Also at this point some clarification should be made as to what exactly is the "end of the world." The Bible says that Earth was given to man for him to fill and subdue it, that the meek will inherit the earth and live forever upon it, and that it will last forever. (Genesis 1:28 / Psalm 37:29; 115:16/ Ecclesiastes 1:4) The end of the world is the end of the present system of things and all that involves. Of Satan's influence and sin, which, when concluding brings much destruction, but when ended, allows peace.

    1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 7:29 / Philippians 1:10 all convey the importance of the missionary work in the early stages of Christianity. They all had important work to do before the end of their lives. Nowhere in any of these passages is it conveyed that they expected the end of the system of things to occur during that time.

    1 Thessalonians 4:17 is often used to support the rapture, but actually it is referring to some who were mourning the death of their fellow Christians. Paul was reminding them as well as faithful Christians in the future of the resurrection hope, some to heaven immediately upon death and some to paradise earth upon resurrection.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23 refers to the presence of Jesus Christ. The Greek noun parousia is used. It means "being alongside." In his work on The Parousia, Israel P. Warren, D.D., wrote: "Had our translators done with this technical word 'parousia' as they did with 'baptisma,' - transferring it unchanged, - or if translated using its exact etymological equivalent, presence, and had it been well understood, as it then would have been, that there is no such thing as a 'Second Presence,' I believe that the entire doctrine would have been different from what it now is. The phrases, 'second advent,' and 'second coming,' would never have been heard of. The church would have been taught to speak of The Presence Of The Lord, as that from which its hopes were to be realized, whether in the near future or at the remotest period, - that under which the world was to be made new, a resurrection both spiritual and corporeal should be attained, and justice and everlasting awards administered."

    The word occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39 / 1 Corinthians 15:23; 16:17 / 2 Corinthians 7:6, 7; 10:10 / Philippians 1:26; 2:12 / 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23 / 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8, 9 / James 5:7, 8 / 2 Peter 1:16; 3:4, 12 / 1 John 2:28.

    Pareimi is a related verb with the similar meaning of being present. It also occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 26:50 / Luke 13:1 / John 7:6; 11:28 / Acts 10:21, 33; 12:20; 17:6; 24:19 / Acts 12:20 / 1 Corinthians 5:3, 3 / 2 Corinthians 10:2, 11; 2 Corinthians 11:9; 13:2, 10 / Galatians 4:18, 20 / Colossians 1:6 / Hebrews 12:11; 13:5 / 2 Peter 1:9, 12 / Revelation 17:8.

    The Greek word, eleusis (Latin adventu), which conveys the physical act of coming is different and only occurs once in the Christian Greek scripture, at Acts 7:52. Paul was encouraging those with a heavenly hope to remain blameless until their death, or the conclusion of the system of things and the presence, not the physical presence, of Jesus Christ.

    In discussing Hebrews 1:2; 9:26 / 1 Peter 1:20; 4:7 it is somewhat difficult to stay on topic of the so called end of the world because the last days that Paul was referring to were not the last days of the present system of things, but rather the last days of the Jewish system of things. Jehovah had given the prophecy of those days 850 years earlier. (Joel 2:28-32 / Acts 2:16-21 / Hebrews 1:1-2) It was the end of God's favor upon the Jewish congregation and the beginning of his favor for the new Christian congregation.

    1 John 2:18 refers to the end of the apostolic period. The work mentioned as important in the scriptures at the beginning of this article were near completion and would conclude upon the death of John shortly after he completed the writing of Revelation.

    [SAB] The end will come soon. (Within a couple thousand years of so)

    Response: It is interesting that, as with the case of Philippians 4:5, the Lord that is being referred to isn't Jesus Christ but rather, Jehovah. Codex Sinaiticus, Greek, fourth century C.E., Codex Alexandrinus, Greek, fifth century C.E., Vatican ms 1209, Greek, fourth century C.E., Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Hebrew, by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599, Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by William Robertson, London, 1661, and the Latin Vulgate, by Jerome, c. 400 C.E. (Iuxta Vulgatam Versionem) all read Jehovah.

    James 5:7-8 is talking about the presence (parousia) mentioned earlier in this article.

    At Hebrews 10:37 Paul quotes Habakkuk 2:2-3 from the Greek Septuagint, which reads "And the Lord answered [me] and said: Write a vision; write it distinctly in a book that the reader may trace these things [may run]; for the vision is for a time yet to come. But it will spring up at last and will not be vain. Though he may tarry, wait for him; for he will assuredly come and will not fail [and will not tarry]."

    Revelation 1:1, 3; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20 may undoubtedly amuse the skeptic, who, of course, is familiar with the Biblical fact that a thousand years are as a watch in the night to God (Psalm 90:4), but to the writers of the Bible, especially John when writing Revelation and who would die shortly afterward, the resurrection hope would follow sleep in death which would seem, upon that resurrection, as the same day as they died, though it actually had been thousands of years.
     
  17. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    There you go again, trying to explain away an obviously failed prophecy with a wall of text. Again, Matt. 16:27-28 is NOT about the transfiguration, as no angels or judgment/rewards occurred during the transfiguration chapter, yet angels and judgment/rewards were mentioned in Matt. 16:27.
     
  18. Rival

    Rival Unicorn
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    I am not a Christian, but the IC refers to Mary, not her son.
     
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  19. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Yes, Mary was the mother, Jesus was the son.
     
  20. Rival

    Rival Unicorn
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    Is it going to be a waste of time trying to communicate with you?
     
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