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Featured Failed NT Prophecies about the Second Coming of Jesus

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly the point - you think that the Bible is a myth. Like reading Grimm's Fairy Tales. But the thing is you have faith that everything started from nothingness - and that we call science.

    [​IMG]

    For me, I was born from another religion and after realizing how false the doctrines was, left for the truth. And among the truths are the prophecies - signs that the Lord Jesus Christ would be sent again to save those who believe.

    I'm sure atheists are aware that nothing last forever - even our lives are fragile to say the least. Astronomers have speculated from asteroid impact, global warming, gamma ray burst - they do have some set of beliefs. However for us [in the Church of Christ] what is written in the Bible would happen, as it happened and recorded in History.



    Even if you take away God from the equation, it does not change that the world would end - one way or another. I rather keep my ticket than being left behind when the thing hits the fan.
     
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You do not understand the Big Bang, nor is it faith. Faith is your weakness. It is evidence based. Perhaps if you learn how the real world works it would help you. Parts of your Bible were proven to be myth a long time ago. We know that the first two books are very mythical.

    Leaving one ignorant belief for another does not make your new ignorant belief better. What did you believe before you were a Christian?

    I used to be a Christian and it was studying the Bible that helped me to realize what it is.


    That is Pascal's wager, another failed argument. If there is no God then you have wasted time and money. If there is a God but he hates Christians (the Muslim version of God for example) then you are in big trouble. A sane God should not punish people for what they cannot know Nor is it moral to put an endless punishment for a limited "crime" that was the fault of the God in the first place. You appear to take the Bible literally. That means that you believe in an immoral God. I seriously don't think that you are that immoral. Merely confused.

    Meanwhile would you like to know how to tell if a prophecy is a failed prophecy or not?
     
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  3. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    One of the worst mistake that a man would do is to get out of the frying pan into the fire.
    [​IMG]
    That is why people should examine thoroughly what they are getting into.

    What is our purpose in life? Everybody dies, I would die, you would die, nobody lives beyond 125 years these days. We die like animals and rot. The Bible says we will be resurrected one day. There is the first resurrection and there is the second. The first are for those who will be saved and the second for those who will find it difficult. What is our choice? That is why I study the Bible not blindly accepting it but rather understanding and living it.

    A quack religion would have sets of doctrines where it is unscriptural - on that I know it was man made. Would that save the followers? Absolutely not. In fact they do not know the many prophecies in the Bible but knowing the prophecies isn't a must. Love of God and love of neighbor is above everything else - now that is my religion.

    1 Corinthians 13:2 New King James Version (NKJV)
    And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

    Prophecies for me is just like french fries on the side. Love of God and Love of neighbor is my Big Mac.

    Tell me, what is wrong with my fries?

    upload_2018-7-2_12-37-59.jpeg
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Why rely on a bad translation of the Bible?

    You lose credibility by relying on a version that is used mainly by people that have a poor understanding of the Bible.

    Once again, you can't judge prophecy unless you know what makes one valid or not. Just being in the Bible is not good enough.

    By the way, why didn't you follow your own advice about jumping from the frying pan into the fire?
     
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  5. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I like NIV. I use Easy to Read Version also. TLV is also nice. NKJV also. I don't really stick to one version.

    An atheist do not believe in the Bible most likely he believes on his own liking. He can't believe in God because he doesn't really know who to believe. Believing in the primordial soup.

    So what is wrong with my fries? Still waiting for the answer why the prophecies of the Lord Jesus Christ failed in your point of view where events in the past led me to believe that they were fulfilled.

    In our studies, the world is waiting for the 1st trumpet and it would come swiftly until the last trumpet.

    Luke 21:11 Good News Translation (GNT)
    There will be terrible earthquakes, famines, and plagues everywhere; there will be strange and terrifying things coming from the sky.

    Until that happens, we have "terrible earthquakes, famines, and plagues everywhere"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/18/2018-set-to-be-year-of-big-earthquakes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake
    [​IMG]
    https://www.wfp.org/news/news-relea...onflict-and-climate-change-new-un-report-says
    815 million people now hungry – Millions of children at risk from malnutrition

    15 September 2017, Rome – After steadily declining for over a decade, global hunger is on the rise again, affecting 815 million people in 2016, or 11 per cent of the global population, says a new edition of the annual United Nations report on world food security and nutrition released today. At the same time, multiple forms of malnutrition are threatening the health of millions worldwide.

    https://journalistsresource.org/stu...lobal-rise-human-infectious-disease-outbreaks
    The 2014 Ebola outbreak in West Africa dramatically raised awareness of the global burden of infectious disease and raised questions about the preparedness of public health systems. In February 2016, the public scrambled to understand the implications of the Zika virus after the World Health Organization designated it as an international public health emergency because of the suspected relationship between Zika and a rise in cases of a rare congenital condition called microcephaly in Brazil. Although non-communicable diseases are the leading cause of morbidity and mortality in most developed nations, infectious disease remains a major public health concern in the United States and around the world.

    upload_2018-7-2_14-10-51.jpeg


    The last trumpet is what we in the church are waiting for.

    1 Corinthians 15:51-53 New International Version (NIV)
    Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

    That's the NIV, not NKJV or would you like this in Tagalog?

    1 Corinto 15:51-53 Ang Dating Biblia (1905) (ADB1905)
    Narito, sinasaysay ko sa inyo ang isang hiwaga: hindi tayong lahat ay mangatutulog, nguni't tayong lahat ay babaguhin,

    Sa isang sangdali, sa isang kisap-mata, sa huling pagtunog ng pakakak: sapagka't tutunog ang pakakak, at ang mga patay ay mangabubuhay na maguli na walang kasiraan, at tayo'y babaguhin.

    Sapagka't kinakailangan na itong may kasiraan ay magbihis ng walang kasiraan, at itong may kamatayan ay magbihis ng walang kamatayan.

    But you could not understand that because you should learn how to talk in Tagalog - again its not NKJV.

    It isn't wrong to believe in the Lord God, not wrong to believe in what are written in the Bible. In fact when we have appliances, we have manuals that go with it. What more with our daily lives?

    2 Timothy 3:16 New Living Translation (NLT)
    All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

    Now where are my fries?
    [​IMG]
     

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  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    If you want me to go into detail you need to start posting properly. Your Posts are illegible due to all of the "Green ink":

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Green_ink

    First let's go over the some rules that will tell us if a prophecy is even a prophecy.

    If I predicted that tomorrow you will see a red car and you went out tomorrow and saw one would that be a fulfilled biblical prophecy?
     
  7. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Never used Green Ink - if I wanna emphasize on something I use red and enlarge it.

    It is not easy in the eyes, if one would use - the colors of the rainbow or different fonts. There is a guy here who is fond of Green Ink - forgot his alias. I don't use alias - I use my surname because I am real.

    If a prediction is not in the Bible how can we say that is a fulfilled biblical prophecy? It is a requirement that it should be written first. Example of which is:

    Jeremiah 4:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
    “Behold, he shall come up like clouds,
    And his chariots like a whirlwind.
    His horses are swifter than eagles.
    Woe to us, for we are plundered!”

    So even if you predicted that I would see a red car tomorrow that wouldn't be a biblical prophecy since I could not see a verse about a red chariot speeding like a whirlwind and swifter than eagles. However it is written in Jer 4:13 about something else

    Jeremiah 4:13 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
    Look! The enemy rises up like a cloud.
    His chariots look like a windstorm.
    His horses are faster than eagles.
    It will be very bad for us!
    We are ruined!


     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is an example of "Green ink", read the article.


    I see that you are running away when I asked you a more than reasonable question. Go back to my previous post and read it again. Cowardice can be an indicator that you know that you are wrong.
     
  9. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Green ink
    is a British journalistic term for the frothing of lunatics.[1][2][3] Back when letters to news outlets were produced in an archaic medium based on materials known as "paper" and "ink", the nutters would supposedly always write their IMPORTANT INFORMATION in green. It is not known just how many such letters actually existed, or if this is just urban legend, though there are occasional reports of physical manifestations.[4] Common comorbid characteristics include irrelevant capitalisation, religious mania, overuse of exclamation marks and veiled threats or warnings directed at the recipient. An article in The Observer about letters to the editor suggests avoidance of green ink.[5]

    The term remains a useful metaphor for similar frothing in the electronic age, even though the pages are likely to include every colour rejected from the rainbow,[6] in a tasteful variety of fonts. Though the truly exquisite green ink often appears in carefully-formatted black and white PDFs.

    Well, that is for the Brits. I'm no Brit. Thank you very much.
    I just like it in bold red huge fonts and enlarged. That aint green ink.

    Cowardice? I'm ready and I have answered specifically that if you predict that I would see a red car tomorrow - you can't call that Biblical prophecy because it is simply not written in the Bible.
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Wow, a slightly complex idea of Green Ink being a term for all manners lunacy depicted in print is too hard for you to understand?

    Your strange behavior makes your posts illegible. If you want to get a point across simply type it.

    And here is the important part that you ignored from that earlier post:

    "First let's go over the some rules that will tell us if a prophecy is even a prophecy.

    If I predicted that tomorrow you will see a red car and you went out tomorrow and saw one would that be a fulfilled biblical prophecy?"
     
  11. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    What are the rules?

    I suggest the following
    - a prophecy in order to be biblical must have biblical chapters and verse and the book which pertains to it.
    - a prophecy should be based on historicity
    - some prophecies have not yet been fulfilled since it will still happen in the future [i.e. the seven trumpets and the seven bowls of wrath in the Book of Revelations]
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is fine.

    I think you mean if it is to be judged to be fulfilled it must be based upon events that have happened in history.

    That is a start, but how do you tell if a prophecy is failed? Let's add a few rules. First it must be a rare event. My "You will see a red car" example is something that is not rare. In fact it would re rather odd if you were outside along a roadway and did not see a red car at some time.

    Does that sound reasonable to you?

    In other words if Zeke said "And lo! Thou shalt see a car of red" the proper reaction when this "prophecy" is fulfilled would be to go "Meh."
     
  13. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Rare event as in it is rare because it happened the first time.
    Assuming I haven't seen a red car, then a red car happens to zoom by - wow that's the first for me and that is a rare event at that time, wouldn't it?

    I'm sure people back then who were accustomed with stage coaches and horses would have found a rare event when they saw a Ford Model T pass by.


    But it would be common place to us to see a red ferrari or audi
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Please try to answer properly. The analogy was obviously based on today's environment. In the Bible times it would be similar to predicting that a Hebrew would see a sheep. Not answering a simple question properly is another example of you demonstrating your fear.

    So let's change my prophecy for Zeke:

    "Lo, thou shalt see a sheep of white".

    Does it mean anything if this "prophecy" is fulfilled?
     
  15. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Who is Zeke? Where can I find that verse in the Bible? Lo, thou shalt see a sheep of white - please cite the Book, chapter and verse.
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It's a hypothetical example. And you seriously don't know who Zeke is? He wrote one of the worst failed prophecies in the entire Bible.
     
  17. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    ZEKE?


    Pentateuch
    These are the books of the Law. These are also called the Books of Moses. This includes the first five books:

    Genesis, written by Moses

    Exodus, written by Moses

    Leviticus, written by Moses

    Numbers, written by Moses

    Deuteronomy, written by Moses

    The Books of History
    The Books of history are so named because they contain historical records and these books include:

    Joshua, written by Joshua (except the parts relating to his death)

    Judges, written by Samuel, Nathan, Gad

    Ruth, written by Samuel, Nathan, Gad

    1 Samuel, written by Samuel, Nathan, Gad

    2 Samuel, written by Samuel, Nathan, Gad

    1 Kings, written by Jeremiah

    2 Kings, written by Jeremiah

    1 Chronicles, written by Ezra

    2 Chronicles, written by Ezra

    Ezra, written by Ezra

    Nehemiah, written by Nehemiah, Ezra

    Esther, written by Mordecai: It is probable that the book was compiled after his death based on his personal records

    The Books Poetry
    [​IMG]
    Bible believers believe that God wrote the Bible using human writers.

    Also called the books of Writings include the following books:

    Job, written by Job: Moses may have compiled the book based on Job’s records

    Psalms, written by David, and several others including Asaph, Ezra, the sons of Korah, Heman, Ethan, Moses and a host of unnamed authors

    Proverbs, written by Solomon: Agur and Lemuel are specifically named as the writers of Proverbs 30 and 31

    Ecclesiastes, written by Solomon

    Song of Solomon (also known as, Song of Songs or Canticles), written by Solomon: though this is debated

    Major Prophets
    The Major Prophets are so named because their books are longer, not because they are more important.

    Isaiah, written by Isaiah

    Jeremiah, written by Jeremiah

    Lamentations, written by Jeremiah

    Ezekiel, written by Ezekiel

    Daniel, written by Daniel


    Minor Prophets
    The Minor Prophets are so named because they are shorter not because they are less important.

    Hosea, written by Hosea

    Joel, written by Joel

    Amos, written by Amos

    Obadiah, written by Obadiah

    Jonah, written by Jonah

    Micah, written by Micah

    Nahum, written by Nahum

    Habakkuk, written by Habakkuk

    Zephaniah, written by Zephaniah

    Haggai, written by Haggai

    Zechariah, written by Zechariah

    Malachi, written by Malachi

    New Testament
    The New Testament is also divided into groups. All of these books were written in the first century AD.

    Gospels
    Matthew, written by Matthew

    Mark, written by John Mark

    Luke, written by Luke

    John, written by John, the Apostle

    History
    Acts, written by Luke

    Pauline Epistles
    Romans, written by Paul

    1 Corinthians, written by Paul

    2 Corinthians, written by Paul

    Galatians, written by Paul

    Ephesians, written by Paul

    Philippians, written by Paul

    Colossians, written by Paul

    1 Thessalonians, written by Paul

    2 Thessalonians, written by Paul

    1 Timothy, written by Paul

    2 Timothy, written by Paul

    Titus, written by Paul

    Philemon, written by Paul

    General Epistles
    Hebrews, written by Paul, Luke, Barnabas, Apollos

    James, written by James: there are several men named James who could have been the author. Most scholars say this is James the brother of Jesus and Jude (not the Apostle, brother of John).

    1 Peter, written by Peter

    2 Peter, written by Peter

    1 John, written by John, the Apostle

    2 John, written by John, the Apostle

    3 John, written by John, the Apostle

    Jude, written by Jude, the brother of Jesus and James, not the Apostle (Jude 17)

    Prophecy
    Revelation, written by John, the Apostle


    Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...ble-complete-list-with-authors/#ixzz5KA4TqUGz
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Fail right from the start, Moses was mythical. Mythical people can't write books. The Gospels were not written by those they were named after either. One of the reasons that you will have problems understanding the Bible is that you do not know the history of it.
     
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  19. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    I think we are done here
     
  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Really?

    You don't wish to learn?

    The Gospels were not even named until the 2nd century. There is no reason to think that they were written by the people whose names are attached to them. The Exodus has been known to be a mythical story for quite some time now. Fear is keeping you form learning.
     
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