Ex-Christians:

[dgirl1986]

You were pressured to be a missionary? What denomination was it?

They were Originally Evangelical and later became Church of Christ

 

[Ingledsva]

Definitely Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions. I have found them to be a fail.

I think you missed the irony in my point. What has failed, isn't Christianity.

I missed nothing. You said -

I like what G.K. Chesterson said, "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried."

In other words, Christianity hasn't failed, it's never been tried yet. So what is it people are leaving? Is it Christianity?

I see the teachings of Jesus as something very few actually get, with not much surprise. It's the whole thing about new wine in old wine skins. Religion cannot contain it

I have studied it - and I am one of those people that have said over and over here, that many misunderstand the culture, and language, and even that - not a single verse in the original language actually says Jesus is God.

However, taken a as whole, the religions of Abraham, and their doctrine, are a fail.

If we were talking about the concept of Deity in general, rather then a religion's dogma, I would possibly have answered differently.


Edit - Or at least I tried, LOL. For some reason it insists on splitting your quote.

*

 

[Sand Dancer]

They were Originally Evangelical and later became Church of Christ

I've never heard of that before (the pressuring, not the denomination). That stinks!

 

[dgirl1986]

I've never heard of that before (the pressuring, not the denomination). That stinks!

Some of the members were really intense...

 

[yoda89]

Some of the members were really intense...

Yes the church of Christ tends to step it up a notch.

 

[dgirl1986]

Yes the church of Christ tends to step it up a notch.

The awkward thing was that my best friends mother was the worst one of all. She doesnt know of my orientation...would be the worst thing ever for her to find out.

 

[Windwalker]

I have studied it - and I am one of those people that have said over and over here, that many misunderstand the culture, and language, and even that - not a single verse in the original language actually says Jesus is God.

I don't doubt you've studied it. I have in depth as well. But each of us have a different perspective to offer, don't we?

However, taken a as whole, the religions of Abraham, and their doctrine, are a fail.

My personal take is this. Assume at least for argument's sake, that Jesus was enlightened. Do you think those who were, or are, unenlightened actually can understand him? Then how do you think a religion in his name would look like? Don't you think it would look like what both you and I reject?

If we were talking about the concept of Deity in general, rather then a religion's dogma, I would possibly have answered differently.

I don't see the sort of thing Jesus was talking about as a concept of God. It is religion that makes it a concept. It is religion that makes it a dogma. As I said, Christianity, to understand what Jesus was getting on about, is rare to non-existent in any organized fashion. That's sort of the nature of it. It's not a belief system. But the religion makes it so, and tells you you are lost without it, betraying they are themselves in the dark.

 

[Ingledsva]

I have studied it - and I am one of those people that have said over and over here, that many misunderstand the culture, and language, and even that - not a single verse in the original language actually says Jesus is God.

I don't doubt you've studied it. I have in depth as well. But each of us have a different perspective to offer, don't we?

Hello again. All actually studying Spirituality have a different perspective.

My personal take is this. Assume at least for argument's sake, that Jesus was enlightened. 1 Do you think those who were, or are, unenlightened actually can understand him? 2 Then how do you think a religion in his name would look like? 3 Don't you think it would look like what both you and I reject? I don't see the sort of thing Jesus was talking about as a concept of God. It is religion that makes it a concept. It is religion that makes it a dogma. As I said, Christianity, to understand what Jesus was getting on about, is rare to non-existent in any organized fashion. That's sort of the nature of it. It's not a belief system. But the religion makes it so, and tells you you are lost without it, betraying they are themselves in the dark.

1. Not most, however, one could consider that all (or most) are on that path whether they wish to be or not. 2. & 3. I actually think of religions as dams on a stream of free-flowing enlightenment. Most people in religions (but not all, as shown by some people here) stop growing, searching, learning, because they have decided one religion or another has all the facts - and the rest are wrong. They miss out on so much. I believe we should study all of the religions and Spiritual movements to glean whatever it was that the founder proclaimed in his or her ah-ha Enlightenment moment, that made people stop dead in their tracks; but then move on to the next smorgasbord. Gleaning and growing until we croak.

*

 

[Windwalker]

1. Not most, however, one could consider that all (or most) are on that path whether they wish to be or not.

Very true. And regarding those who become ex-Christian, I say that is very much part of a path towards spirituality, not backwards into sin as those who leave the religion are often cast by those who remain in it. That's shocking for people to hear, but I see it as needing to cast off the spiritual shackles of religious bondage in pursuit, or as a result of, a path of growth.

There's a quote I'm greatly fond of I read in Sri Auribindo's The Life Divine, where he praises atheism as a step in the right direction towards a realized awareness. Not of course that atheism is "the truth", but that it helps break minds away from the bondage of ignorance and superstitions. Hopefully, it too doesn't become its own religion of bondage in preventing growth of spirit in its naively simplistic cries of "where's your evidence?" to anything and everything, but that's another discussion. To share that quote for your reading that touches on this progression, here it is,

It is necessary, therefore, that advancing Knowledge should base herself on a clear, pure and disciplined intellect. It is necessary, too, that she should correct her errors sometimes by a return to the restraint of sensible fact, the concrete realities of the physical world. The touch of Earth is always reinvigorating to the son of Earth, even when he seeks a supraphysical Knowledge. It may even be said that the supraphysical can only be really mastered in its fullness – to its heights we can always search– when we keep our feet firmly on the physical. “Earth is His footing,” says the Upanishad whenever it imagines the Self that manifests in the universe. And it is certainly the fact the wider we extend and the surer we make our knowledge of the physical world, the wider and surer becomes our foundation for the higher knowledge, even for the highest, even for the Brahmavidya.

In emerging, therefore, out of the materialistic period of human Knowledge we must be careful that we do not rashly condemn what we are leaving or throw away even one tittle of its gains, before we can summon perceptions and powers that are well grasped and secure, to occupy their place. Rather we shall observe with respect and wonder the work that Atheism had done for the Divine and admire the services that Agnosticism has rendered in preparing the illimitable increase of knowledge. In our world error is continually the handmaid and pathfinder of Truth; for error is really a half-truth that stumbles because of its limitations; often it is Truth that wears a disguise in order to arrive unobserved near to its goal. Well, if it could always be, as it has been in the great period we are leaving, the faithful handmaid, severe, conscientious, clean-handed, luminous within its limits, a half-truth and not a reckless and presumptuous aberration.​

2. & 3. I actually think of religions as dams on a stream of free-flowing enlightenment.

They can be, but this is a question I've been chewing on for some time trying to see where the value actually does exist, rather than being quick to swipe it all aside as an evil, or hindrance to Truth. It most certainly can be, and you see Jesus, for example, taking to task the religious institution of his day for that very reason, calling them white-washed tombs all clean on the outside but full of rotting flesh within. But where is the balance?

This too can get complex but if we realize than any sort of organization around beliefs or values will take on a nature of its own through group dynamics. Power hierarchies can and do arise because it is the nature of certain personalities types to be drawn to positions of power over others. Administrative needs arise and standards set in order to preserve group cohesion, etc. These all can and do detract from the founding principles that the group was formed around, as it tries to maintain those in the midst of this sort of system that arouse around it.

The positive side of it is that it offers a structure of support for those interested in its core message or goals. It also preserves and transmits that message. Would we have the teachings of the Buddha today were it not for some institutionalization of them? Would we have any of the Wisdom teachings of Masters through the ages were not some organization or other responsible for preserving them?

Now it get's more complex from here. To only briefly touch on that I'll just say that each internal movement upwards spiritually, on a vertical scale, also needs to have a horizontal structure in order to support that new spiritual level by offering a means to translate that experience into a lived reality. We have minds, we have social interactions, we have frameworks of reality that we use every day to navigate the world. We can't easily, if at all, simply sit on top of the mountain with our minds in transcendent bliss, without ever touching the ground. To me that's spiritual escapism, whereas spirituality finds the means to translate itself into the world, through higher and higher structures. Those then in turn offer support to those on their vertical path, or ever-widening circles of growth if you prefer avoiding hierarchical models to speak of this.

Most people in religions (but not all, as shown by some people here) stop growing, searching, learning, because they have decided one religion or another has all the facts - and the rest are wrong.

Most people don't even bother to go beyond the comforts and security of their own lives regardless of religion either. They're just doing the same thing in religion as they do in front of their TV's watching football or something. They're not interested in an inner development. They've got just enough to keep them happy, and if not, they find another distraction to settle into again. And so it goes.

But in a sense, in an ideal sense I should say, if they participate in the structure of the religious system, hopefully, somewhere in there, what vestiges of that core spiritual message of the institution is in there may seep through and into their psyches that at some point in their own path (which they are all on, as you pointed out), something opens within them to something beyond their illusory worlds they've rolled themselves into, and what message got through can actually blossom for them in some manner that benefits them on their new, awakening path. Suddenly, some common 'saying', becomes this glistening diamond radiating eternal truths. Such is the nature of Wisdom teachings. We see them and hear them, yet not at all actually, until something happens inside of us. There's your 'ah haha' moment.

They miss out on so much. I believe we should study all of the religions and Spiritual movements to glean whatever it was that the founder proclaimed in his or her ah-ha Enlightenment moment, that made people stop dead in their tracks; but then move on to the next smorgasbord. Gleaning and growing until we croak.

*

I don't disagree we should glean from all religions. No institution owns God. But there is also something to be gained within a tradition that is lost by being all over the place. And there is also a loss by being stuck in that tradition and not opening to others. I just started reading Living Buddha, Living Christ, by Thich Nhat Hanh, and he goes into this very thing. "I enjoy fruit salad!", is how he puts this.

I personally think there's not a one-size fits all approach. Some people would do poorly being outside of some spiritual home, others need to break free to continue their path. But even then for them, that may only be for a time to do what work needs to be done, and then find some more appropriate structure again. I think the real issue is that these religions become too specialized and narrow, and when you outgrow what they have to offer, they have nothing else to meet you with. In other words, it good for us at one point, but they themselves are not big enough to offer where are at at that next point. This is why the institution of Christianity is collapsing in on itself right now. It's been struggling since the Enlightenment in the West to translate that Baby of spirituality into the world beyond the bathwater of a mythic-literal dogma.

 

[Deva758]

Why I left Christianity is a long story, but I was raised in a very strict fundamentalist form - Baptist, literal, King James Bible only, etc.. Perhaps that wasn't the best presentation of Christianity. Nevertheless, I decided at a certain point that the whole story of original sin was bogus and that the Bible was the work of men. I also studied church history and found out that the form that Christianity takes has differed throughout history and the kind I was raised with was a new innovation. It had no truth and it had no history, as far as I was concerned. Then I learned what metaphor and symbol meant and I was done completely.

Quoting Windwalker (and your post #49 was overall excellent):

Most people don't even bother to go beyond the comforts and security of their own lives regardless of religion either. They're just doing the same thing in religion as they do in front of their TV's watching football or something. They're not interested in an inner development. They've got just enough to keep them happy, and if not, they find another distraction to settle into again. And so it goes.

I found that to be true. It also surprises me. My parents are still, at age 80, in the same religion, doing the same Bible studies for 50 years, with the same interpretation. I used to think it was admirable to be so dedicated to something, and that I could never achieve that. Now, I think it is more honorable to question, learn and find out what else is out there.

At about age 15 I read the Bhagavad Gita. My mother didn't want it in the house. It took me another 30 years, but I broke away from Christianity as I knew it, and have found meaning and truth BEHIND what I call the "exoteric" religions taught in churches.

Although I am technically a Buddhist, an institutional type of religion and a lot of same old repetition and routine just isn't for me. Also I can't shove myself into a mold and believe something that doesn't ring true with my life experience.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Hmmm...well, I'm pretty sure I wasn't really a Christian to start with, but I was raised Christian-ish, and attended Church irregularly (Church of England) and was a member of CEBS, which is pretty much church Cubs/Scouts.

But I never really believed in God, so far as I can remember. And I have a pretty analytical way of dealing with the world, so once I was old enough to realise I didn't really believe, I set to studying it like I would any other topic. And my 'not really believing' became a case of full-blown atheism.

My world-view has developed, hopefully deepened, and matured since then, but the basic tenet of atheism has not changed in the least.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Why I left Christianity is a long story, but I was raised in a very strict fundamentalist form - Baptist, literal, King James Bible only, etc.. Perhaps that wasn't the best presentation of Christianity. Nevertheless, I decided at a certain point that the whole story of original sin was bogus and that the Bible was the work of men. I also studied church history and found out that the form that Christianity takes has differed throughout history and the kind I was raised with was a new innovation. It had no truth and it had no history, as far as I was concerned. Then I learned what metaphor and symbol meant and I was done completely.

I used to attend Baptist churches but I don't think I ever could again. Sad, isn't it, how things have been added in through the years that don't belong?

 

[Ouroboros]

I would love to know why you left Christianity. My reason is because it's too exclusive and the idea of it seems divisive, not to mention it makes God sound cruel. And then there's the validity of the Bible...

Looong story. I'll make it very short.

I was hardcore Christian. I believed God would protect me and my family if I stayed true, honest, and in love with God.

We planned to go and see some family for thanksgiving in the 90's, and my wife would take my kids on a road trip going there. We prayed. We were three people praying for protection and a safe journey.

It wasn't.

Things happened, and the fight for survival and recovery was very long and hard for my wife and kids. Very terrible times. I fought to keep my faith, but after many years of struggle, the doubt of a loving God who would love and care my family as much as I was too strong and I gave up. I couldn't resist the doubt anymore. There wasn't any faith left. And I prayed many times for faith, and my last prayer was that if God truly wanted me to know his existence, he had to show it to me some way or another.

This turned me into an atheist over time. During that time I did have some mystical experiences, very much like the ones I had as a Christian, but different. I felt unity and peace. I also went back to school to re-educate myself, and the things I learned about science, philosophy, sociology, psychology, and more got me thinking and modify my views to some degree.

So in the last year or so, I've embraced a slightly more spiritual view on life and God. I don't believe in the personal/good/justice/theological God anymore, but I think the term God works for explaining the strong, mystical force of life and Nature.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Things happened, and the fight for survival and recovery was very long and hard for my wife and kids. Very terrible times.

So in the last year or so, I've embraced a slightly more spiritual view on life and God. I don't believe in the personal/good/justice/theological God anymore, but I think the term God works for explaining the strong, mystical force of life and Nature.

I am so sorry for that experience. Hope everyone is fine now. I used to think that Christians were protected. But then I had friends get cancer, church buses crash and people die. That scared me. Your current views intrigue me. I'd love to hear more, as it may be the way I want to worship.

 

[Ouroboros]

I am so sorry for that experience. Hope everyone is fine now.

Kind'a.

We have one son who is paraplegic now. He needs someone to care for him for the rest of his life, and there's always medical issues or dangers knocking on the door. He's had more than 50 surgeries total in the last 15 years. His medical history filled a whole garage at one point. Everyday is a struggle, but we try to make life as happy and pleasant as we can.

I used to think that Christians were protected. But then I had friends get cancer, church buses crash and people die. That scared me. Your current views intrigue me. I'd love to hear more, as it may be the way I want to worship.

I love life now, and I'm not scared to "move on" either. Death only scares me in the sense of pain, suffering, and the hole I would leave behind. Death is certain, just get accustomed to it. It can be an acquaintance, but it doesn't have to be a friend.

We've found ways of keeping the family together and have a good time. Some classes I take, I take with one or another of my kids. My wife and I take cooking classes together and cook at home. Anything that can bring joy and peace to everyday life is important. We are the gods of our lives, so we make our own blessings.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Kind'a.

We have one son who is paraplegic now. He needs someone to care for him for the rest of his life, and there's always medical issues or dangers knocking on the door. He's had more than 50 surgeries total in the last 15 years. His medical history filled a whole garage at one point. Everyday is a struggle, but we try to make life as happy and pleasant as we can.


I love life now, and I'm not scared to "move on" either. Death only scares me in the sense of pain, suffering, and the hole I would leave behind. Death is certain, just get accustomed to it. It can be an acquaintance, but it doesn't have to be a friend.

We've found ways of keeping the family together and have a good time. Some classes I take, I take with one or another of my kids. My wife and I take cooking classes together and cook at home. Anything that can bring joy and peace to everyday life is important. We are the gods of our lives, so we make our own blessings.

I think it's stories like these that shifted my view of God. I didn't leave my faith, but I really reevaluated it.

It also annoyed me that when it happens the first response people would say is that "it's Gods will" or my personal favorite "God wouldn't give you something you couldn't handle"

I think that has edged me away from the view of a personal God, to a God that you make personal.

 

[Ouroboros]

I think it's stories like these that shifted my view of God. I didn't leave my faith, but I really reevaluated it.

Yup. My first re-evaluation resulted in complete rejection, but I'm finding a middle ground now, which I think is healthy. Only problem is that few really are at the same spot. I've found a bunch here on RF though, who are very similar in mind. A bit of an sporadic church...

It also annoyed me that when it happens the first response people would say is that "it's Gods will" or my personal favorite "God wouldn't give you something you couldn't handle"

I know. The only way I could handle it, and my family, was to leave the false idea of God, i.e. literalist Christianity.

After my realization, I didn't tell anyone. After a couple of months, I couldn't hold it in anymore but had to tell my wife. To my surprise and shock, she had lost her faith too. My kids same thing. She maintained, and still does, a belief in a God. She's not an atheist, but very secular theist/agnostic.

I think that has edged me away from the view of a personal God, to a God that you make personal.

Very good. God can be very personal to us, if we want to, because we are all persons. We are gods. We talk to gods. We can be with gods. And it all comes together as God, personal and impersonal.

I just can't see an entity/personal God sitting (in an infinitely spiritual way ) in another dimension and plotting and scheming our lives. It's outdated, old fashioned, and even childish to me now to think like that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I joined the Catholic Church when I was 17. I was devout in my faith for awhile. But I eventually did a bunch of studying on religion and history and it caused me to do a lot of thinking. I went over the philosophical ramifications of the existence of such a creator deity as presented in the Bible and all the acts "he" is said to have carried out, plus the history of the religion and the Bible and found that I'm not able to reconcile that with my faith. Plus, Catholicism has a tendency to leave you feeling rather guilt-ridden.

So basically, I just asked too many questions and found that they have no answers that are conducive to sustaining a faith in Christianity. I no longer believe in any sort of creator god. I lean more towards pantheism and my Left Hand Path views bring self-deification into the mix.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Kind'a.

We have one son who is paraplegic now. He needs someone to care for him for the rest of his life, and there's always medical issues or dangers knocking on the door. He's had more than 50 surgeries total in the last 15 years. His medical history filled a whole garage at one point. Everyday is a struggle, but we try to make life as happy and pleasant as we can.


I love life now, and I'm not scared to "move on" either. Death only scares me in the sense of pain, suffering, and the hole I would leave behind. Death is certain, just get accustomed to it. It can be an acquaintance, but it doesn't have to be a friend.

We've found ways of keeping the family together and have a good time. Some classes I take, I take with one or another of my kids. My wife and I take cooking classes together and cook at home. Anything that can bring joy and peace to everyday life is important. We are the gods of our lives, so we make our own blessings.

Oh, I am so sorry! It's horrible how something that happens so quickly can change the rest of your life. You sound very positive through it all.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I I no longer believe in any sort of creator god. I lean more towards pantheism and my Left Hand Path views bring self-deification into the mix.

What/how does one worship or live with that type of religion? I have no idea. Just really sincerely wanting to know.