Evolution vs. Creation: Proof Needed

[Khale]

I have been invited by a friend I work with to attend a small Evolution vs. Creation seminar. The event will take place something like this:

+ A video is shown with a pre-recorded debate over evolution and creation.
+ The tape will be finished and we will then discuss what we had just seen including the pros and cons of each.
+ Refreshments of some sort will be served (mmm... Punch!)
+ The End

Now, if I know my friend (which I do) the debate will be fairly one-sided in favor of creation; to the point of outright distortion. I myself am not scientist and have a hard time arguing for evolution in these scenarios. So what I would like from the community at Religious Forums is:

+ Some evidence for evolution.
+ Some counter-arguments for common (or uncommon) creation arguments.
+ Any other material that can help level the playing field.

The seminar is going to be held on the 19th of August 2005 (end of this week), so any information that is provided before then would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Khale.

 

[joeboonda]

I may not be of much help. But I see that you are a Christian, so why not see what the Bible says. I will keep this short.

Genesis chapter one: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night, And the evening and the morning were the first day v.5. Note at the end of each day of creation, it ends with, "And the evening and the morning were the second day." And the evening and the morning were the third day." etc.

So he establishes exactly what a day is, a 24 hour day, then re-establishes the 24 hour day at the end of every day of creation.

Then he looks at all he made and says its very good. v.31 In verse 30 he says the animals were to eat every green herb for meat.

So, it was very good, the animals didnt eat each other, sin had not entered into the world, therefore no death, for sin is what brought death and the fall. Therefore, you can't have millions of years of death going on before all this and call it very good.

And the new testament verifies, that, in Romans stating that by one man, Adam, sin entered the world, and therfore death, and by one man, Jesus the sin was paid for.

So simply using the Bible, you can see that God created the Heavens and the Earth, in 6 literal days, and saw it was very good, and then Adam came along , sinned, bringing in death, and the whole creation fell and changed, and has been that way ever since. Hope you enjoyed that, PEACE!

 

[goodjewishboy]

So he establishes exactly what a day is, a 24 hour day, then re-establishes the 24 hour day at the end of every day of creation.

I'd like to know where it says anything about reestablishing a 24 hour day in Genesis...


For you Khale, here are some links you may find useful
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/how-not-to-argue.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/debating-creationists.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/fabnaq.html

 

[joeboonda]

I'd like to know where it says anything about reestablishing a 24 hour day in Genesis...

In Genesis, he called the light day and the darkness night and the evening and the morning were the first DAY. Didnt you read my post?

 

[meogi]

Some evidence for evolution.

http://books.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html - Pretty good.

Some counter-arguments for common (or uncommon) creation arguments.

Fade posted this nice little link a while ago and answers it well: http://www.vuletic.com/hume/cefec/

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Eeep, I'm not sure if I should step into this one, since I'm not sure what I believe. I'd want help,though, on such a project with so many viewpoints, so here's my insights. (Such as they are. You may not like the second.)

A common arguments from a creationist standpoint:"We could not have evolved into such complex beings without the help of a creator." (Although this could fall flat if there were any frat boys in the auditorium that could be pointed to.)

The only 'uncommon' argument for creation is one of my own, a quirk of the male anatomy that I've been amazed by (You! In the back! Stop laughing and pointing at me before I break out of the computer and pop you one!) since I learned why it was the way it is.

CHILDREN, THE ELDERLY, AND SMALL ANIMALS STOP READING THIS AND COVER YOUR EYES!!!

(There, that should be safe.) Two of the dangly bits (the scientific term I used in another thread) that stand out from the male body do so because the body heat they'd be exposed to if they were inside the body proper would kill the... err... what the dangly bits contain. This part of the body jutts out just enough to keep them from being too warm (also, just enough so that the poor guys are easy targets for things that appear on "America's Funniest Home Videos") while still keeping them close enough not to freeze.

That's my only real argument for creation. It's pretty awesome that that exists.

CHILDREN, THE ELDERLY, AND SMALL ANIMALS MAY NOW GO BACK TO READING THIS THREAD. THANK YOU.

 

[joeboonda]

LOLOL! ROfLMAO! Now that was very funny!!! I am laughing so hard! That's a darn good arguement! It really is! It is definetely awesome that that arguement exists, and that my wife exists and...oh, ok shut up now, children may be present, ok, shh, lol!

 

[Ryan2065]

Feathers, your argument for creation is testicles?


... I have no words...

 

[Feathers in Hair]

... I have no words...

Y'know, it's strange how often people have that reaction when faced with my arguments. I'm sure it's simply because they are stunned at how persuasive I am.*bows*

Of course, the same argument could be applied, simply pointing to natural selection. Me, I say anyone who is willing to voice this opinion first deserves to have it on their side.

 

[joeboonda]

Y'know, it's strange how often people have that reaction when faced with my arguments. I'm sure it's simply because they are stunned at how persuasive I am.*bows*

Of course, the same argument could be applied, simply pointing to natural selection. Me, I say anyone who is willing to voice this opinion first deserves to have it on their side.

Yeah, ya gotta have balls to go up against the evolutionists, balls and brains, cuz its a tough debate either way you go really.

 

[michel]

I may not be of much help. But I see that you are a Christian, so why not see what the Bible says. I will keep this short.

Genesis chapter one: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night, And the evening and the morning were the first day v.5. Note at the end of each day of creation, it ends with, "And the evening and the morning were the second day." And the evening and the morning were the third day." etc.

So he establishes exactly what a day is, a 24 hour day, then re-establishes the 24 hour day at the end of every day of creation.

Then he looks at all he made and says its very good. v.31 In verse 30 he says the animals were to eat every green herb for meat.

So, it was very good, the animals didnt eat each other, sin had not entered into the world, therefore no death, for sin is what brought death and the fall. Therefore, you can't have millions of years of death going on before all this and call it very good.

And the new testament verifies, that, in Romans stating that by one man, Adam, sin entered the world, and therfore death, and by one man, Jesus the sin was paid for.

So simply using the Bible, you can see that God created the Heavens and the Earth, in 6 literal days, and saw it was very good, and then Adam came along , sinned, bringing in death, and the whole creation fell and changed, and has been that way ever since. Hope you enjoyed that, PEACE!

Well I sure did! Way to go, Joe! :clap

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I was telling my mom about this thread, and she suggested that you might want to see if there's anything that Bob Jones University has put out. That's only if you're looking for more creationalism arguments or counter-arguments.

 

[Khale]

I may not be of much help. But I see that you are a Christian, so why not see what the Bible says...

...So simply using the Bible, you can see that God created the Heavens and the Earth, in 6 literal days, and saw it was very good, and then Adam came along , sinned, bringing in death, and the whole creation fell and changed, and has been that way ever since. Hope you enjoyed that, PEACE!

You are correct, I am a christian. The reason, however, I am not relying on the bible for an explanation of creation is that I don't believe the bible to be a book of fact, but a book of theology. I also have some problems with using one source to verify itself, seems kind of sketchy. What I do believe is that God created something (maybe the big bang, maybe the world) and then his creation evolved from there.

Now, the reasons that I am not arguing for creation is because:

+ I believe that all arguments should be presented equally from all sides.
+ I believe, as I stated above, that the bible is a book of theology and not necessarily correct on this subject.
+ I know that the arguments to be used will be based mostly on misunderstandings.

To everyone else who replied to my thread; Thank you for your expedient and helpful replies. If you have any more information please continue to post it. I still have three days.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Khale, I agree that you should encourage the opposition to keep the Bible out of it. The evolution vs. creation debate is supposed to be a scientific one, and the Bible is simply not scientific.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Here's to Feather's danglies! Bwahahaha!!!

 

[painted wolf]

sometimes they try to say that certen living things 'suddenly' appeared as if out of nowhere...
trilobites for example.. here is a link to thier evoltion, and that of the triobite eye: http://www.trilobites.info/
the eye in general: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/04/
http://www.origins.tv/darwin/eyes.htm
http://www.karger.com/gazette/64/fernald/art_1_0.htm

I could post dozens of helpful links but I hope these few will be a good start.

wa:do

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Khale-- You clearly have an open mind, and I suspect that your intuition about your friend's seminar (that it will be heavily biased and filled with misinformation) will turn out to be correct.

Unfortunately, time is not on your side. The less knowledgable about evolution and paleontology and biological facts you are, the better it will be for your friend.

 

[CMIYC]

My argument against evolution is this: evolution is not an overnight thing and if it were possible it would take a lot longer then the stretch of our imagination. For a start, crocodiles and various insects including mosquitoes have been found fossilized along side of dinosaurs, without any evolutionary change. Nest, all living things are protected by genealogy, so, oranges could never merge with apples and horses with cows and humans with apes. It is for that reason that the reproduction between warm blooded creatures and cold blooded creatures would be impossible. Not unless you believe evolution happened overnight.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My argument against evolution is this: evolution is not an overnight thing and if it were possible it would take a lot longer then the stretch of our imagination.

According to what scientific evidence?

For a start, crocodiles and various insects including mosquitoes have been found fossilized along side of dinosaurs, without any evolutionary change.

So what? Evolution is not replacement.

Nest, all living things are protected by genealogy, ...

What does this have to do with evolution?

Not unless you believe evolution happened overnight.

I believe that you know nothing about evolution.

 

[CMIYC]

According to what scientific evidence?
What does this have to do with evolution?

At some stage the creatures evolving would be incomputable genealogically, ( meaning incompatible to mate) assuming there was a transition from cold blooded to warm blooded, as it is believed so far. You need to study evolution to know what Im talking about.