Evidence

[Trailblazer]

Because when one claims to have evidence then one is taking on a burden of proof.

There is no burden of proof if they say that all they have is evidence, not proof.
I have said umpteen million times that I have no proof, only evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

You are partially right. I have no idea what would be evidence for God. But I can see what is not evidence for God. Those two statements do not contradict each other. Now there may be some evidence that I cannot judge either way. But when someone posts clearly failed 'evidence" it is usually not a problem to point it out.

After all these years, you still don't get it, and I don't think you ever will.
Evidence is not failed evidence just because it failed to convince you.

Try to think about this logically. Let's just say that there is evidence for God. Why do you think that 'everyone' would recognize it as evidence for God?

 

[Trailblazer]

This is a pretty low thing to do, you are trying to drag into debate someone who has repeatedly stated they do not want to debate their beliefs.

I am not dragging her into anything. She can hold her own.

 

[muhammad_isa]

From my experience all "God" beliefs appear to be such. No Muslim can seem to rationally support their beliefs..

..nothing specific then .. just a general, "it looks irrational to me".

Well clearly, billions of Muslims think otherwise.
They believe that worshiping God 5 times a day is rational, and benefits the individual and the community.

They embrace the moral values that the Qur'an teaches, and take pride in remembering the Qur'an in its entirety, and are thankful to God for the guidance it contains.

 

[Trailblazer]

And with someone that has stated the he does not want to debate her beliefs.

I was not suggesting a debate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no burden of proof if they say that all they have is evidence, not proof.
I have said umpteen million times that I have no proof, only evidence.

Sorry, but yes, there are some claims that do put a burden of proof upon the claimant, especially on a debate thread.

 

[Subduction Zone]

..nothing specific then .. just a general, "it looks irrational to me".

Well clearly, billions of Muslims think otherwise.
They believe that worshiping God 5 times a day is rational, and benefits the individual and the community.

They embrace the moral values that the Qur'an teaches, and take pride in remembering the Qur'an in its entirety, and are thankful to God for the guidance it contains.

Please, if you want a discussion then you cannot use strawman arguments.

 

[Subduction Zone]

After all these years, you still don't get it, and I don't think you ever will.
Evidence is not failed evidence just because it failed to convince you.

Try to think about this logically. Let's just say that there is evidence for God. Why do you think that 'everyone' would recognize it as evidence for God?

I never said it was. It is failed evidence if one can demonstrate it to be so. And I and others have regularly demonstrated that here.

And your last question is a strawman. No one ever made that claim.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I will let you take that up with @Sgt. Pepper since she is the psychic medium.

As far as I'm concerned, Subduction Zone can believe whatever he chooses about my mediumship abilities. If I knew him in person and he asked me if he could come along on one of my paranormal investigations, I would let him. I'd let him decide for himself about whatever potential evidence of the paranormal we may find, and I wouldn't try to persuade him to believe either. And if, by chance, there was the spirit of his deceased loved one present and the spirit asked me to give him a special message, then I would tell him.

In all honesty, I've discovered that the most effective approach to convincing a skeptic that there are earthbound spirits and that the paranormal is real is to reveal personal facts that only they and their deceased loved one know. I've been a practicing medium for the past fifteen years now, and I've yet to meet a hard skeptic who walked away still skeptical of the paranormal after I revealed personal facts about a deceased loved one that I had no way of knowing or a memory that only they and their deceased loved one knew about.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Please, if you want a discussion then you cannot use strawman arguments.

What is that supposed to mean?
You make a general statement saying that "it looks irrational", without saying why..

I was merely pointing out that billions find it rational.
You will really need to be more specific, if you want a more specific reply.

..just saying "belief in a god is irrational" is relatively meaningless.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

This is a pretty low thing to do, you are trying to drag into debate someone who has repeatedly stated they do not want to debate their beliefs.

I've already mentioned my psychic medium abilities and personal experiences in this thread, and @Trailblazer and I are friends. So, I don't mind if she mentions me in her posts. She already knows that I won't debate my beliefs, and I'm sure that she respects that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

..nothing specific then .. just a general, "it looks irrational to me".

Well clearly, billions of Muslims think otherwise.
They believe that worshiping God 5 times a day is rational, and benefits the individual and the community.

They embrace the moral values that the Qur'an teaches, and take pride in remembering the Qur'an in its entirety, and are thankful to God for the guidance it contains.

No, the " it looks irrational to me" was your claim. I never said that. Plus there is no excuse to edit such a short post.

If you want a discussion then no strawman arguments and no editing of posts that you quote.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No, the " it looks irrational to me" was your claim. I never said that. Plus there is no excuse to edit such a short post..

What?

From my experience all "God" beliefs appear to be such. No Muslim can seem to rationally support their beliefs which indicate that the source of their beliefs is not rational itself. Or in other words, the work of someone that believed things that were not true.

As the saying goes, show me some valid evidence or even logic and I could easily change my mind.

There you are .. your whole post in its glory.
What is it, that you think I haven't responded to, that you consider troublesome?
You say "No Muslim can seem to rationally support their beliefs"..
..which means in effect, you think that their belief is irrational.
..or is there something wrong with my logic?

If you want a discussion then no strawman arguments and no editing of posts that you quote.

We ARE having a discussion .. you are free to pull out any time you like, obviously .. as am I.

 

[John53]

I've already mentioned my psychic medium abilities and personal experiences in this thread, and @Trailblazer and I are friends. So, I don't mind if she mentions me in her posts. She already knows that I won't debate my beliefs, and I'm sure that she respects that.

Our opinions differ on the motive of the post but if you're happy, I'm happy so I'll leave it there

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Our opinions differ on the motive of the post but if you're happy, I'm happy so I'll leave it there

Thank you very much. I sincerely appreciate your thoughtfulness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What?



There you are .. your whole post in its glory.
What is it, that you think I haven't responded to, that you consider troublesome?
You say "No Muslim can seem to rationally support their beliefs"..
..which means in effect, you think that their belief is irrational.
..or is there something wrong with my logic?


We ARE having a discussion .. you are free to pull out any time you like, obviously .. as am I.

Not supporting one's beliefs rationally is a good indication that one's beliefs are not rational. It is not hard evidence for that, but one has to wonder why one does not do that.

And your claim that most Muslims don't find Islam irrational is dubious,since most religious people rarely seem to give their religion serious thought at all. Religious beliefs tend to be based on what religion one is born into. It is not a decision one enters into.

 

[Trailblazer]

I never said it was. It is failed evidence if one can demonstrate it to be so. And I and others have regularly demonstrated that here.

The problem is that you have not demonstrated it to be failed evidence, nobody has.

You BELIEVE you have demonstrated that but you have not.
Just because it failed to convince you and other atheists does not MEAN it is failed evidence.
That is completely illogical.

That is a claim so now you have the burden of proof.
Explain how you have demonstrated it to be failed evidence, or take your toys and go home.

demonstrate: clearly show the existence or truth of (something) by giving proof or evidence.
demonstrate means - Google Search

And your last question is a strawman. No one ever made that claim.

Did I ever say you made a claim? No, I just asked a pointed question. Let me restate it.

Let's just say that there is evidence for God. Do you think that 'everyone' would recognize it as evidence for God?
If everyone would not recognize it as evidence for God why wouldn't they recognize it as evidence for God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The problem is that you have not demonstrated it to be failed evidence, nobody has.

You BELIEVE you have demonstrated that but you have not.
Just because it failed to convince you and other atheists does not MEAN it is failed evidence.
That is completely illogical.

That is a claim so now you have the burden of proof.
Explain how you have demonstrated it to be failed evidence, or take your toys and go home.

demonstrate: clearly show the existence or truth of (something) by giving proof or evidence.
demonstrate means - Google Search

Did I ever say you made a claim? No, I just asked a pointed question. Let me restate it.

Let's just say that there is evidence for God. Do you think that 'everyone' would recognize it as evidence for God?
If everyone would not recognize it as evidence for God why wouldn't they recognize it as evidence for God?

False almost everyone has done so. If you did not understand at the time it was refuted you should have asked questions.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..most religious people rarely seem to give their religion serious thought at all..

Yeah, whatever .. as you were.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, whatever .. as you were.

Do you disagree with that? Do you seriously think that anywhere near a majority of the religions make a rational decision which religion to believe?