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Evidence That Jesus Was Plagiarized From Earlier Gods

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Only Reason, Aug 8, 2022.

  1. Only Reason

    Only Reason New Member

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    christ-the-redeemer-source-of-life_byzantine.jpg
    Jesus Christ Byzantine Portrait c. 7th-11th A.D

    Jesus is a mythological character derived from many different gods way before he came to be. let's take a look at a couple of deities that look very similar to him and have done miracles very similar to his as well. Yes, there are many more deities like him but I will only touch base on a couple that I believe resemble the Christ figure the most. And for the sake of keeping this article as short as I possibly can.


    DYING AND RISING DEITIES


    4f144ece-e756-4b5d-9017-d0823a6c89ca.jpg
    ~ Serapis Christus AKA Serapis Christ Portrait c. 100-200 A.D

    Created around 300 BC by Ptolemy 1, It is no coincidence that this man deity shares a remarkable resemblance with his complexion to that of Jesus Christ. His last name "Christus" which some people credit him with is also another word for "Christ" hence you can say "Serapis Christ." (masc. Christus = Christ.* Is this still coincidental to you? I don't think so. Ptolemy 1 created him to be the bull of sacrifice, "Apis" and the dying and rising god, "Osiris" to unify the greeks and egyptians in his region.

    A quick summary of Apis and Osiris: Apis was a very prominent deity used for bull sacrifice and worship by the egyptians. (Osiris on the other hand is a dying and rising god. Osiris was a dying and rising deity who, in the Osiris Myth, was killed by his brother Set and chopped up into 14 pieces but Osiris' wife Isis was able to resurrect him so that she could have sex with him. She then bore the child named Horus. Immediately after this Osiris went to the underworld and rules it to this day 1.)

    So thus the name Serapis was derived. Serpais would then attain these attributes of dying and rising and being the bull of sacrifice (2). Jesus was the sacrificial lamb and was a dying and rising deity as well.


    images.jpg
    ~ Dionysus, God Of Wine Pottery c. 400 B.C


    He came to be around the 13th century BC. In this work of art, I again can't help but look at him and think of the Jesus figure. He's yet another dying and rising deity. He is also known as the "twice-born" God where the first incarnation of himself was "Zagreus - first born dionysus." After his resurrection he became "Dionysus - the God of wine." There are some that claim he could turn water into wine like Jesus but this could not be corroborated. Even so, it is worth mentioning.

    According to the information from the Dionysus | Encyclopedia Britannica n.d) "In Orphic legend (i.e., based on the stories of Orpheus), Dionysus—under the name Zagreus—was the son of Zeus by his daughter Persephone. At the direction of Hera, the infant Zagreus/Dionysus was torn to pieces, cooked, and eaten by the evil Titans. But his heart was saved by Athena, and he (now Dionysus) was resurrected by Zeus through Semele. Zeus struck the Titans with lightning, and they were consumed by fire" (3).


    BONUS

    Lastly, I want to debunk one REALLY important concept of Jesus. His virgin birth of course.

    b62d0e87-5b22-4879-b68d-81dc6dc62f07.jpg
    Rhea Silvia And Her Two Sons, Romulus and Remus Statue c. 1400-1499 A.D

    Meet Rhea Silvia. She was a vestal virgin which in ancient Rome is a 30 year vow of chastity. According to the story, she was the daughter of king Numitor of Alba Longa who later on was deposed by his younger brother Amulius. Amulius then made her a vestigial virgin so she couldn't have any Claimants to the throne that Amulius now usurped. Some day afterwards something rather unusual unraveled.

    She was met by the God of Mars when she went into his grove and he wanted to conceive her two children named Romulus and Remus. After the incident she then went around claiming she had just been raped by the God of Mars and is now pregnant. Then she gave birth to Romulus and Remus (4). And mentioned in Romulus and Remus | Encyclopedia Britannica) "Amulius, enraged over the ordeal, ordered the infants to be drowned in the Tiber River. The guards, having pity on them because of their innocence, decided to raft them down the Tiber River instead. They hit an end down the river and were suckled by a she-wolf and woodpecker which were sacred animals to Mars and were later found by the herdsman Faustulus" (5). It's very similar to the baby Moses story.† Check out the birth story of 'Sargon of Akkad' as well if you want to see what inspired the Exodus story relating to baby Moses.‡

    I want to also note that the earliest known manuscript for This virgin birth story about Rhea Silvia dates to the 3rd century BC even though the story is about the birth of Rome which occured in 753 BC. We have no known documents as of now for the Romulus and Remus story dating at the time in which Rome was founded. Wikiped ia Contributors 2022, June 20 - Rhea Silvia. Wikipedia). From a historical standpoint, This is at least 200 years before the purported virgin birth belief of Jesus through Mary and about 300 years before the idea of a Christian virgin birth was penned on paper. Therefore, we can reasonably say that the Christian NT scribes borrowed the virgin birth story from Roman and perhaps even Greek mythology for the sake of their own belief about Jesus. It obviously did not start with Christianity as we can see though.

    CONCLUSION

    I find no real reason to believe in the Jesus story as the overwhelming amount of evidence points in the opposite direction of him being a real historical figure. And that these ideas of resurrection and a virgin birth were already incorporated into various religious beliefs centuries before Christianity was even a thought amongst the common folk.

    ~ Only Reason


    Bibliography


    1. World History Edu. (2022, April 19). Birth, Death & Resurrection of Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian God of the Underworld. Birth, Death & Resurrection of Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian God of the Underworld - World History Edu

    2. Serapis Christ. (n.d.). Lost-History. The Dying-and-Rising Gods: Sereapis

    3. Dionysus | Powers, God, Parents, Meaning, Symbols, & Facts. (n.d.). Encyclopedia Britannica. Dionysus | Powers, God, Parents, Meaning, Symbols, & Facts

    4. Wikipedia contributors. (2022, June 20). Rhea Silvia. Wikipedia. Rhea Silvia - Wikipedia

    5. Romulus and Remus | Story, Myth, Definition, Statue, & Facts. (n.d.). Encyclopedia Britannica. Romulus and Remus | Story, Myth, Definition, Statue, & Facts
     
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  2. 1137

    1137 Wandering in Darkness / Priest of Set
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    This ploy of the demiurge can be traced rather easily with the right information, each incarnation being more oppressive and more successful. It started with him calling himself "King of the gods" such as Osiris and Zeus, pretending to be the first and highest among all the others. Then he tried to become the Aten, the first monotheistic god who demonized and cast down all other gods. This may be the one instance of failure, because Atenism did not work for more than a generation and was swiftly cast down by a dynasty dedicate to the Prince of Darkness. With time and preparation the demiurge attempted this monotheism successfully 3 more times in the Abrahamic religions. Now, of course, the demiurge takes the side of Matter and State.

    At first it was just "worship who you want, but know I'm the best". This became more hostile with time, "believe in me to get the best afterlife" (Osiris) or "even the other gods must bow before me or suffer" (Zeus). Slowly it was twisted to be "I am the only god, worship me or suffer," and finally it is changing to "you are entirely slaved to me, and your only hope is through those who rule".
     
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  3. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    No, the historical Jesus, prophesied to come to earth in the biblical scriptures, was not plagiarized or derived from various religious god myths. Any tweeked similarities are purely the work of Satan inserting fakes into the minds and religions of humanity throughout history to distract from the real Savior.

    “It’s often claimed that the story of Jesus was plagiarized or adopted from pagan deities. That the ideas of his virgin birth, his baptism, his gathering of disciples, his miracle working, his title as the son of god, his death and his resurrection are ideas that were taken from pre-Christ pagan myths and mishmashed together to give us the unoriginal and recycled story of another dying and rising saviour-figure: Jesus Christ.”

    “We are told Jesus is just one of many dying and rising gods present in history, and that every culture has their own saviour figure with stories that are exactly the same as the story of Jesus in every way. Since we apparently have stories of gods that predate Jesus who have the exact same outline and ministry as he did, it’s suggested that the story of Jesus is a knock-off of pagan stories that come before him.”

    Zeitgeist Debunked: Jesus Is Not A Copy Of Pagan Gods | Reasons for Jesus




    “Moreover, the claim that Jesus was simply made up falters on every ground. The alleged parallels between Jesus and the "pagan" savior-gods in most instances reside in the modern imagination: We do not have accounts of others who were born to virgin mothers and who died as an atonement for sin and then were raised from the dead (despite what the sensationalists claim ad nauseum in their propagandized versions).

    Moreover, aspects of the Jesus story simply would not have been invented by anyone wanting to make up a new Savior. The earliest followers of Jesus declared that he was a crucified messiah. But prior to Christianity, there were no Jews at all, of any kind whatsoever, who thought that there would be a future crucified messiah. The messiah was to be a figure of grandeur and power who overthrew the enemy. Anyone who wanted to make up a messiah would make him like that. Why did the Christians not do so? Because they believed specifically that Jesus was the Messiah. And they knew full well that he was crucified. The Christians did not invent Jesus. They invented the idea that the messiah had to be crucified.

    One may well choose to resonate with the concerns of our modern and post-modern cultural despisers of established religion (or not). But surely the best way to promote any such agenda is not to deny what virtually every sane historian on the planet -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, pagan, agnostic, atheist, what have you -- has come to conclude based on a range of compelling historical evidence.

    Whether we like it or not, Jesus certainly existed.
    Did Jesus Exist?
     
  4. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    Both of your posts, @Only Reason and @1137, significantly reinforce what I've come to believe about the stories of Jesus and the Bible in general. As a former Christian, I'm of the opinion that the stories about Jesus in the Bible were copied from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate both the Bible and Christianity. As I mentioned in similar threads, the stories of Jesus' crucifixion, death, and resurrection are similar to the stories of Attis, the Phrygian-Greek god of vegetation (1250 BCE). In the mythological stories of Attis, he was divinely born of a virgin; he was hung on a tree and died; he descended into the underworld after his death; he was resurrected after three days; and he brought salvation with him in his rebirth. There are a few other similarities between the stories written about Attis and Jesus in this article, "Attis: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, Crucified and Resurrected after Three Days."

    In addition to the similar stories between Attis and Jesus, there are more similarities between the stories of Jesus' life and those of other Christlike figures from pagan religions that also predate both the Bible and Christianity. In these articles, "10 Christ-Like Figures that Predate Jesus" and "Other Gods That Rose From the Dead in Spring Before Jesus Christ," there are plenty of examples of older pagan Christlike figures whose stories parallel the life of Jesus, such as being born of a virgin, being tempted by the devil before an earthly ministry began, miraculously healing sick people, dying to redeem humanity, and being raised from the dead after three days.

    Suffice it to say, I think it's reasonable to assume that paganism had a significant impact on Christianity, and that this influence can be seen in the Bible, the stories about Jesus, and in Christian rituals. There are a plethora of examples of how Christianity parallels pagan religions that predate it in this article: Parallels between Christianity and Ancient Pagan Religions. And this article has more examples: The Bible is Fiction: A Collection of Evidence. Paganism had a significant impact on Christmas (see here) as well as Easter (see here).

    And finally, I don't think we should give the savior story of Jesus any more credence than the other Christlike stories that have been mentioned thus far. In fact, I think these other stories clearly prove that Christianity isn't unique, despite the claims by Christians that the Bible is divinely inspired by God and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world. Christianity isn't unique in its beliefs.
     
    #4 Sgt. Pepper, Aug 8, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    I hear you, however just because miracles are attributed to him which are significant in previous myths that does not mean Jesus does not begin with a real person and that he is not real to begin with. Having him do miracles from myths of the past (which he did not personally do as a man) is consistent with an ancient doctrine of apotheosis. As he becomes divine he takes on the characteristics of divinity, so he becomes responsible for divine actions which have preceded him. Giving up his humanity, his personality, his wishes and fears and pleasures he becomes something greater.

    I point out that in Eastern Orthodoxy, part of the mystery of the Trinity is that Jesus the man (and we also) can partake of the divine. Its easy to think of the stories of Jesus as representative of this. He's a man, and then we represent him as divine doing miracles borrowed from other stories. The point of these miracles being to suggest that divinity has now come to humanity, that we are all on the cusp of a monumental shift. Its a great story, and it by no means to me counts as evidence that Jesus is entirely manufactured. It fits well with the eastern orthodox concept of apotheosis.
     
  6. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Where is the evidence that there was plagiarizing?
    Stories of gods and demigods is not evidence, especially if you look at the details of those stories and just how not similar they are to the story of Jesus.
    If you begin with the presumption that stories of gods with vague similarities has to mean that one story picked up ideas from other stories then all you do is give evidence for the way you look at history,,,,,,,,,,, through the eyes of deism.
     
    #6 Brian2, Aug 8, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  7. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you believe that, or any of your claims? One could as well claim that is a fabrication to make Jesus look less than what he is?

    Even if there would have been similar details in some earlier persons, it does not mean someone necessarily copied anything. But, I think the biggest mistake you make is that you don't know Bible Jesus. According to the Bible, there is only one true God that is greater than Jesus. How could Jesus be a copy god, if he is not the one and only true God Bible teaches?

    This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
    John 17:3

    the Father is greater than I.
    John 14:28

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    1 Timothy 2:5

    And second biggest failing point in my point of view is that you are focused on matters that are not meaningful. Meaningful is what Jesus said. The other alleged gods doesn't seem to have anything good and meaningful to say.
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    " I find no real reason to believe in the Jesus story as the overwhelming amount of evidence points in the opposite direction of him being a real historical figure. And that these ideas of resurrection and a virgin birth were already incorporated into various religious beliefs centuries before Christianity was even a thought amongst the common folk.
    ~ Only Reason
    Bibliography
    1. World History Edu. (2022, April 19). Birth, Death & Resurrection of Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian God of the Underworld. Birth, Death & Resurrection of Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian God of the Underworld - World History Edu
    2. Serapis Christ. (n.d.). Lost-History. The Dying-and-Rising Gods: Sereapis
    3. Dionysus | Powers, God, Parents, Meaning, Symbols, & Facts. (n.d.). Encyclopedia Britannica. Dionysus | Powers, God, Parents, Meaning, Symbols, & Facts
    4. Wikipedia contributors. (2022, June 20). Rhea Silvia. Wikipedia. Rhea Silvia - Wikipedia
    5. Romulus and Remus | Story, Myth, Definition, Statue, & Facts. (n.d.). Encyclopedia Britannica. Romulus and Remus | Story, Myth, Definition, Statue, & Facts " Unquote
    Paarsurrey writes:
    I agree with one on what I have colored in magenta above. The bibliography at the end is also very useful.
    Jesus (not Yeshua son of Maryam or Mariam ) is most certainly a mythical figure created and imposed cunningly on Yeshua (in his absence) and his teachings by Hellenist Paul, his associates and later the Pauline Church, as I understand, please . Right?
    Yeshua (son of Maryam or Mariam):
    1. who did not die on the Cross,
    2. and who was treated for his injuries in the room type tomb of Joseph Arimathea
    3. and when fit to travel, he secretly went to Galilee
    4. and who migrated from Judea to the eastwards countries
    5. to convey his message to the Israelite diaspora
    is a historic figure, one could Google for it, and one would find a lot of historic clues to that end, one gets to know, please. Right?

    Regards
     
    #8 paarsurrey, Aug 23, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
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