Evidence, specifically scientific evidence.

[PureX]

The Universe does not have brain cells.

You should probably learn more about what constitutes 'the universe'.

 

[ecco]

Since the Solar System has more than just the Sun and the Earth its barycenter is constantly moving.



There is no single Earth Sun barycenter due to the pull of the other planets (especially Jupiter) on the Sun.

You just contradicted yourself. "Its barycenter" implies one single barycenter which, as you correctly pointed is constantly moving. Your observation in your first sentence contradicts your "no single barycenter" comment in your second sentence.

Given that our solar system is part of a moving galaxy which is part of a moving galactic group which is part... ...the sun/earth barycenter is really zipping along on a really weird path.

I'll stick to the earth orbits the sun. That's far less taxing on my feeble brain.

 

[PureX]

I think that is too dismissive. Science reveals to us how the world seems to work, yes. But the goal is far from restricted to being able to manipulate the world to our advantage. We didn't all want to be engineers, noble profession though it is! I would contend science is a source of profound and deeply satisfying knowledge and wisdom too, even though our models remain provisional and we agree the map is not the territory. That is not to say it is the only source of wisdom and knowledge, obviously. If it were, we would have nothing but science departments at our universities.

What wisdom has been derived from the practice of science? Knowledge, yes. But what wisdom? How has science made mankind wiser?

And are you reading these other posts? Those who are trying to defend their own 'scientism' by claiming it isn't what I said it is are doing so by expressing their contempt for any and all assertions not in keeping with their elitist "objective reality = truth" dictum. Which is exactly what I accused it of doing.

 

[Audie]

You just contradicted yourself. "Its barycenter" implies one single barycenter which, as you correctly pointed is constantly moving. Your observation in your first sentence contradicts your "no single barycenter" comment in your second sentence.

Given that our solar system is part of a moving galaxy which is part of a moving galactic group which is part... ...the sun/earth barycenter is really zipping along on a really weird path.

I'll stick to the earth orbits the sun. That's far less taxing on my feeble brain.

Feeble or febrile?

 

[Audie]

That is being deliberately obtuse.

"obscurantism"

ya gotta love having a prof of english lit for a mom.

 

[Audie]

Since I am no philosopher, again many thanks @Audie, would have to say no.

But are you a scientismist? All of those are morally weak, or simply insane.

 

[PureX]

The Earth moving about the Sun is not a truth? Knowing which antibiotic to use in order to stop an infection is not wisdom?

Is it? Our is it perhaps within the willingness to do so? Knowing how sounds like simple knowledge, to me. Whereas the willingness, knowing why, sound more in keeping with wisdom.

What is real wisdom and truth, and what is the evidence that backs your claims?

Hmmm, ... Is wisdom derived from evidence? Is that evidence transferable to others as universal truth? Or is wisdom derived from personal experience, which cannot be easily transferred to others? Nor even universally applied. I would say the latter.

 

[Audie]

What wisdom has been derived from the practice of science? Knowledge, yes. But what wisdom? How has science made mankind wiser?

And are you reading these other posts? Those who are trying to defend their own 'scientism' by claiming it isn't what I said it is are doing so by expressing their contempt for any and all assertions not in keeping with their elitist "objective reality = truth" dictum. Which is exactly what I accused it of doing.

Quite an accusation. Now-

Again we ask, probably in vain, for an example of a scientismist or
anyone who is doing as you say.

Lest, you know, you come in line for some accusations re what you are doing.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Is it? Our is it perhaps within the willingness to do so? That sounds like simple knowledge, to me. Whereas the willingness, and the reasons behind it sound more in keeping with wisdom.

Then what is the difference between knowledge and wisdom?

Hmmm, ... Is wisdom derived from evidence?

Is it wise to do something when all of the evidence demonstrates that it would be a bad idea? Is it wise to forgo conventional medical treatments and instead use unproven and untested treatments?

Or is wisdom derived from personal experience, which cannot be easily transferred to others? I would say the latter.

It is interesting that science ignores personal anecdotes and instead focuses in objective data. In doing so, science has been extremely successful. So is it wise to rely on your personal experience only, or is it wiser to look at the objective data?

 

[Audie]

Then what is the difference between knowledge and wisdom?

Without giving it detailed thought, I would say that knowing what to do with/ how to apply knowledge is what makes for wisdom.

Your friend there seems-I can be corrected here, as suitable-to think that
wisdom can exist independent of data, evidence, etc, such as goes into science.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But are you a scientismist? All of those are morally weak, or simply insane.

I must be, hair growing out of my palms, going blind, bad posture . . . oh wait, I think that is something else. Never mind.

 

[ecco]

But he is part of the universe, as are we all. So the universe most certainly does have brain cells!

No. His point was that the universe is self aware, that IT can think.

Exactly. If you and I and he are thinking, it is thinking, n'est ce pas?

I mean, I don't know what inferences one can usefully draw from such an observation, but it seems logically unassailable to me.

You believe that it is logically unassailable that the rock in my yard can think?

That is being deliberately obtuse.

I'm being obtuse? Care to reread our conversation? This is all about whether or not the universe can think.
First you stated you thought it was so. Then you doubled down by using the phrase "logically unassailable".

 

[ecco]

Do you think? What gives you the ability to think? Brain Cells.

The Universe does not have brain cells.

You should probably learn more about what constitutes 'the universe'.

Pray, do teach me. Teach me how the universe can think with no brain cells. But, no woo, no BS philosophical opinions.

 

[Audie]

I must be, hair growing out of my palms, going blind, bad posture . . . oh wait, I think that is something else. Never mind.

Hairy palms.. that is a sign of lycanthropy

could be creeping codgerdom

in either event avoid mirrors.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hairy palms.. that is a sign of lycanthropy

could be creeping codgerdom

in either event avoid mirrors.

I am getting rather old. And yes, definitely good advice on mirrors. For some reason they all are inhabited by a stranger these days.

 

[exchemist]

What wisdom has been derived from the practice of science? Knowledge, yes. But what wisdom? How has science made mankind wiser?

And are you reading these other posts? Those who are trying to defend their own 'scientism' by claiming it isn't what I said it is are doing so by expressing their contempt for any and all assertions not in keeping with their elitist "objective reality = truth" dictum. Which is exactly what I accused it of doing.

Yes I would say that science does lead to wisdom. But I suppose I am thinking mainly about the way one learns it at university. The dons I learnt from seemed to be able to apply their knowledge while recognising its fallibility, and at the same to have an infectious curiosity and enthusiasm for the unexpected, which I consider to be wisdom. (My tutor used so frequently to open a response by "It's very interesting you say that, because......" that it was almost his catchphrase.) I gather this is one interpretation of wisdom. I think studying science can give some wisdom too in the sense of expanding the mental horizon, to make one aware of the wonders of the world and thus more tolerant of the vicissitudes of daily life. And there is no doubt at all that the deep questions about limits to knowledge implicit in quantum theory - the fall of determinism etc - lead to a certain humility about human capacity to know.

I'm not saying that everyone who studies science draws such lessons from it, but I feel sure many do.

 

[exchemist]

I am getting rather old. And yes, definitely good advice on mirrors. For some reason they all are inhabited by a stranger these days.

Oh how true.

 

[exchemist]

"obscurantism"

ya gotta love having a prof of english lit for a mom.

Eh? Mine was only an English teacher.

 

[exchemist]

I'm being obtuse? Care to reread our conversation? This is all about whether or not the universe can think.
First you stated you thought it was so. Then you doubled down by using the phrase "logically unassailable".

OK.

It goes like this:-

1) You are part of the universe

2) You have brain cells

3) Ergo, the universe has brain cells.

That is all he meant. I think.

 

[Audie]

Eh? Mine was only an English teacher.

Hardly matters, does it?