Egyptian exodus proof or slavery?

[Ehav4Ever]

Please give the verse from Torah that says that a person not born in the biological line of Jacob, that is not belonging to the 12 tribes, but accepting One God is not to be considered as a Jew.

How about this, show in an ancient Israeli/Jewish text, WITHOUT TRANSLATION, that states how someone being "Jewish" is determiend.

If you are looking for a Torath Mosheh definition it is right here in Sefer Bemidbar and in Sefer Ruth.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

∆ embarrassing ...

Extremely embarrassing.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

But what if the non-Jewish woman accepts the Jewish concept of God? And, this too is not from the OT.

Greetings. I don't read an OT. That is a Christian term.

There is nothing in any ancient Israeli/Jewish texts that states the if a woman accepts a Jewish concept of a god then she is a Jew. Thus, for example, Christian women who claim to accept what they think is a Jewish concept of a god are not considered Jewish, according to Torath Mosheh. In fact, this is proven out in the book of Nehamya where women and children were sent back to where they came from because they had not accepted being a part of the Jewish people and they did not accept the mitzvoth of the Torah.

 

[River Sea]

If you are an expert in the Torah, as it was originally written, shouldn't you already know just from reading what it states?

על כנפי נשרים ואבא אתכם אלי ועתה אם שמוע תשמעו בקלי ושמרתם את בריתי והייתם לי סגלה מכל העמים כי לי כל הארץ ואתם תהיו לי ממלכת כהנים וגוי קדוש אלה הדברים אשר
תדבר אל בני ישראל
​

on the wings of eagles and I will bring you to me and now if you hear my voice and you will keep my covenant and you will be my strength out of all the peoples because the whole earth is mine and you will be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation these are the words that you will speak to the children of Israel

Did so by clicking on photo script that uses modern Ivrith letters. I click on search image with google lens. Was able to translate in English. Then next step will be search this so find what verse number.

I understand shemoth in Ivrith Exodus English, I know the letter H in Ivrith., due to Learning about Abram to Abraham letter Ivrith H ה
then I saw letter Ivrith H ה in your photo script and I was thinking wait I notice ה

It brought me to ask you

then I learn that yes script scrolls use Ivrith Modern letters.

Now I'm just finding where in English the verse number - this is a quick research., without opening them

This is searching
Exodus 19 with Sheets - Sefariahttps://www.sefaria.org › ... › Torah › Exodus › Chapter 19
יהוה called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus shall you say to the house of Jacob and declare to the children of Israel:.

I notice you use this website too right
תנ"ך בכתיב המסורה - שמות פרק כ

I saw you use this from else where but I can't remember where: can we use that website when communicating?

So if you want all Ivrith, then how about at least a website., other wise I'll need to use google lens to find where. So far I only know Ivrith letter ה

the upper detatch line is yud spiritual, I associate that as 'I' we all carry that's in all of us. The other area is Physical.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

על כנפי נשרים ואבא אתכם אלי ועתה אם שמוע תשמעו בקלי ושמרתם את בריתי והייתם לי סגלה מכל העמים כי לי כל הארץ ואתם תהיו לי ממלכת כהנים וגוי קדוש אלה הדברים אשר
תדבר אל בני ישראל
​

on the wings of eagles and I will bring you to me and now if you hear my voice and you will keep my covenant and you will be my strength out of all the peoples because the whole earth is mine and you will be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation these are the words that you will speak to the children of Israel

Did so by clicking on photo script that uses modern Ivrith letters. I click on search image with google lens. Was able to translate in English. Then next step will be search this so find what verse number.

Very good. So, you have shown that even an English translation uses the word "nation" when referring to Yisraeli/Jews prior to when the Esreth Dibrooth was given, and as a result of accepting the Torah.

So if you want all Ivrith, then how about at least a website.,

As long as it is without translation, sure. Mechon Mamre and the other one I sent you is fine.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Are you suggesting that there is a reliable, non-fallacious method by which one can establish the existence of a collective unconscious?

I have read Freud and Jung. Freud gives evidences for the existence of unconscious. Jung for the collective. My own view is that we get "God" if extend Jung's collective to "universal. That would be a scientific "proof" of God.
I would welcome your critique of their evidences. I am not competent to summarize their evidences. Hope you will appreciate my limitations.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

So, you have shown that even an English translation uses the word "nation" when referring to Yisraeli/Jews prior to when the Esreth Dibrooth was given, and as a result of accepting the Torah.

Yes. the core message of the Torah is One God. So One God> Torah> Nation..
Ex 19:5: And now, if you will diligently listen to me and keep my covenant, then you will be my special possession out of all the nations, for all the earth is mine,
The word for nation:
from 6004; a people (as a congregated unit); specifically, a
tribe (as those of Israel); hence (collectively) troops or
attendants; figuratively, a flock:-folk, men, nation,
people.
This can be moral. Need not be biological.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

If you are an expert in the Torah, as it was originally written, shouldn't you already know just from reading what it states?

I am not an expert in Torah. I am learning Judaism, Christianity, Islam and I am a Hindu by birth. That would entail my learning Hebrew, Greek, Arabic and Sanskrit in addition to the undeciphered Indus Valley Script. So I will go with the translations, please.

 

[ppp]

I have read Freud and Jung. Freud gives evidences for the existence of unconscious. Jung for the collective. My own view is that we get "God" if extend Jung's collective to "universal. That would be a scientific "proof" of God.
I would welcome your critique of their evidences. I am not competent to summarize their evidences. Hope you will appreciate my limitations.

I have read them too, though it has been a while. But I do distinctly remember that Jung's claims about such a thing as the collective unconcious were fundamentanly unfalsifiable. If you have a specific proposition for which you think that there is specific evidence, I will be happy to discuss it. But I would need positive evidence and a falsifiable hypothesis to discuss.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Yes. the core message of the Torah is One God. So One God> Torah> Nation..

Actually, that is not the core message of the Torah. The concept of god is not in the original text. Below is what is written in the Torah as the core message.

Ex 19:5: And now, if you will diligently listen to me and keep my covenant, then you will be my special possession out of all the nations, for all the earth is mine,
The word for nation:
from 6004; a people (as a congregated unit); specifically, a
tribe (as those of Israel); hence (collectively) troops or
attendants; figuratively, a flock:-folk, men, nation,
people.
This can be moral. Need not be biological.

That is incorrect. You got that from Strong's Concordence which is a "Christian source."

Besides, the word (עם) is not what I referenced. Again, what you are described is based on Christian translations and Christian sources. Ancient Yisraeli/Jewish/and Even Samaritan sources disagree with your assessment.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I am not an expert in Torah. I am learning Judaism, Christianity, Islam and I am a Hindu by birth.

I understand that. That is why I am correcting what you have written by showing what is actually in the text we are talking. From what you write I get the impression that most of the sources you have access to are Christian or Christionized ones. You have to treat this the same way I would if I were discussing Hinduism.

Because I am not a HIndu and because I don't read ancient/or modern Hindu texts in the language they were originally written in I would work hard to not make make assumptions in any way about what said texts and Hindu culture is about.

I.e. you are at times making statements as if you are an expert in something that you admit that you are not an expert in.

That would entail my learning Hebrew, Greek, Arabic and Sanskrit in addition to the undeciphered Indus Valley Script. So I will go with the translations, please.

Again, because you are relying on translations and, as you stated, you are not an expert on Yisraeli/Jewish texts, history, and culture there are times you are making incorrect statements.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So if you want all Ivrith, then how about at least a website., other wise I'll need to use google lens to find where. So far I only know Ivrith letter ה

the upper detatch line is yud spiritual, I associate that as 'I' we all carry that's in all of us. The other area is Physical.

The following may help.

 

[River Sea]

@Ehav4Ever

This is the website you want Ivrith Scriptures from
Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala can you check out that website?

Oh because Torath Mosheh Jews don't have the word Hebrew, they have the word Ivrith, so when seeing word Ivrith that's what that means. @Ehav4Ever said he'll include number verses if we use this website.

Exodus Chapter 1 שְׁמוֹת Shemoth

verse 2,3,4

verse 2) Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah; (English)

ב רְאוּבֵן שִׁמְעוֹן, לֵוִי וִיהוּדָה. (Ivrith)​

verse 3) Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin;

ג יִשָּׂשכָר זְבוּלֻן, וּבִנְיָמִן. (Ivrith)​

Verse 4) Dan and Naphtali, Gad and Asher.

ד דָּן וְנַפְתָּלִי, גָּד וְאָשֵׁר. (Ivrith)
​

What do the Judah and Benjamin tribes think of the other tribes back then and now that no one can find these other tribes any more, or do they know where they are?

​

 

[River Sea]

@Ehav4Ever

Vocabulary: 'Ivrith' Torath Mosheh Jew word for Hebrew

How did Ivrith take care their cattle while traveling to Yisrael?

Was the land enough for water and food for cattle? What did the Ivriths do to help keep their cattle healthy while traveling?

From website Exodus 10 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

English then Ivrith

Exodus Shemoth שְׁמוֹת 10:26
26 Our cattle also shall go with us; there shall not a hoof be left behind; for thereof must we take to serve the LORD our God; and we know not with what we must serve the LORD, until we come thither.

כו וְגַם-מִקְנֵנוּ יֵלֵךְ עִמָּנוּ, לֹא תִשָּׁאֵר פַּרְסָה--כִּי מִמֶּנּוּ נִקַּח, לַעֲבֹד אֶת-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ; וַאֲנַחְנוּ לֹא-נֵדַע, מַה-נַּעֲבֹד אֶת-יְהוָה, עַד-בֹּאֵנוּ, שָׁמָּה.​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This language fetish is pretentious drivel at best.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

But I would need positive evidence and a falsifiable hypothesis to discuss.

I don't think I can do better than Jung.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

How did Ivrith take care their cattle while traveling to Yisrael?

The contemporary western cattle are sedentary. The traditional Indian cattle are grazers. They can walk 5 km to graze and come back. The Hebrews couldeasily manage as long as there were some pastures on the way.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Below is what is written in the Torah as the core message.

Please give the verse number. And, please explain the parameters used by you to determine what is core and what is not?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

You got that from Strong's Concordance which is a "Christian source."

I am happy to know the content and the source of your correct interpretation. I have no way to respond if you merely say that Strong's is wrong without specifying what is wrong according to what interpretation.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

you are at times making statements as if you are an expert in something that you admit that you are not an expert in.

I am happy to correct myself on such statements. That said, "experts" have their pitfalls. There are different methods of attaining knowledge. I am not responding to your other similar comments to avoid repetition. Hope OK.