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Featured Egyptian exodus proof or slavery?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Aug 21, 2022.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Is there proof of the Egyptian Exodus the story of Moses, the desert, and the red sea, is there any chariots found in the red sea? What's the Red sea deal anyways, I always heard that Moses' group got through the Red Sea, and the Egyptians got stuck, but some say the Red Sea was so shallow anyways that it didn't make sense.

    What about the Pharoah, the leader of Egypt, what has been written by Egyptians about him?
     
  2. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    The exodus is pretty much a Jewish fable/myth.
     
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  3. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
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    I've posted this a couple of times before. This is not accepted proof but on the other hand it's a plausible explanation.

    First, the Hebrew term in the BIble is "Yam Suph" which translates as the "Reed Sea" or "Sea of Reeds".

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ion-for-the-parting-of-the-red-sea-in-exodus/

    What atmospheric phenomenon could make this occur? The paper describes a coastal effect called a “wind setdown,” in which strong winds -- a little over 60 miles per hour -- create a "push" on coastal water which, in one location, creates a storm surge. But in the location from which the wind pushes -- in this case, the east -- the water moves away. Such occurrences have been observed in the past in Lake Erie, among other places -- and, note Drews and Han, also in the Nile Delta itself in the year 1882.
     
  4. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Ron Wyatt found chariot remains on the
    bottom.of the Red Sea.
    I heard about that.
    Enjoy
    Wyatt Family - legitimate site of Ron Wyatt discoveries
     
  5. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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  6. Bharat Jhunjhunwala

    Bharat Jhunjhunwala TruthPrevails

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    I think myths survive only if there is some true content to them. So let us not simply dump it. Let us look at what it says. If you are saying that the Exodus story does not match with Egypt, then I agree with you. If for example, we do not find a Peral Harbor in Egypt; that does not mean that the Japanese attack n Pearl Harbor is a myth. We need to look at alternative locations of Mitsrayim--the name by which the Hebrew texts refer to the place of Exodus.
     
  7. Bharat Jhunjhunwala

    Bharat Jhunjhunwala TruthPrevails

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    The chariot wheel have not been dated. Perhaps they slipped of a cargo ship. We would expect to find much more archaeological evidence than just one wheel. Wyatt's indentification of Sinai also does not make sense geologically. He points to some charred remains thousands of years ago.
     
  8. Bharat Jhunjhunwala

    Bharat Jhunjhunwala TruthPrevails

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    Computer models say winds of 60+ mph for 6+ hours would shift the waters of the Bitter Lakes and expose the bed. But one cannot cross them with winds of this speed. Further, the Pharaoh could easily circle around the Lakes and catch up with the Hebrews on the other side. Yet further, the Bitter Lakes lie on the shortest route to Israel that the Hebrews were asked to avoid.
     
  9. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    There is extrabiblical archaeological evidence for plagues in Egypt like the ones described in the Bible.
    There is archaeological evidence for Israel being in Egypt at the time and place the Bible tells us they were there.
    These evidences are not definite however and many archaeologists deny they are what they appear on the surface to be.
    Egyptian Chronology seems to be messed up to a certain amount and that does not help.
    The dating of the Exodus seems to be messed up also due to archaeological errors and a misreading of the Biblical story and so many archaeologists say that the Exodus was about 1200BC instead of the Biblical dating of 1400BC. The 1200 BC dating gives no sign of the conquest story as told in the book of Joshua but with the correct dating of 1400BC the conquest story can be verified in the archaeology of Canaan and so there is no need for other theories about how Israel ended up in Canaan.
    Basically the whole thing is a mess and if you are of a mind to believe most of the archaeologists then you would probably say that the story of Moses is a myth that did not happen.
    But I don't believe most of the archaeologists, I go with the minority view.
     
  10. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. In fact, Egypt kept very few slaves. They built the pyramids themselves.
     
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  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    There are no chariot wheels.
    R Wyatt was just a con man.
     
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  12. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    It might be based on several separate stories, but it’s not a thing in Egyptian history. I highly suspect Moses, Aaron, and Miriam represent King Josiah, High Priest Hilkiah, and Huldah respectively. 2nd Kings has a story where essentially they conspired to create a backstory to a legal text to shut everyone up.
     
  13. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like an extreme position to have. How did you arrive there? Is it because of something you know about Egypt and slavery or because of archaeological views on the conquest of Canaan and the origin of the Jewish people?
    Slavery in ancient Egypt - Wikipedia.
     
  14. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    "This article needs additional citations for verification."

    From various documentaries I've seen about the construction of the many monuments in Egypt, the citizens built them, themselves. There were some slaves, but they tended to be domestic, and treated very well. Or they were sent away to serve the troops or to mines, so that the citizens could stay home, grow crops, and build monuments.
     
  15. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the workforce seems to have been a mix of slaves and others.
    That does not say anything against Israel being there initially as non slaves and then being turned into slaves because of their increase in population and the desire of Egypt to control them somehow so they did not become too much of a threat to the regime.
     
  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It also doesn't say anything against space aliens helping to build the pyramids, either. Yet I doubt it happened that way. For obvious reasons.
     
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  17. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    No I didn't read anything about space aliens.
    But anyway, why do you doubt that Israel was in Egypt as slaves?
     
  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Because the Egyptians didn't keep slaves. Their soldiers took slaves as booty, and sold them or kept them on the road, as they traveled and conquered. They also enslaved foreign miners to exploit their resources. And they used foreign domestic servants that were not necessarily "slaves". But they didn't use slaves to build their pyramids and temples because that was considered a sacred quest by and for the Egyptians, themselves. They were earning their passage into the next world. They would work the fields part of the year, and build monuments the other part. Because the Nile valley was so fertile they could do that.

    And I don't believe it because the rest of the story is unbelievable. It is a mythical story that neither requires nor purports to be historical fact. It's intent is to convey an ideal, or an ideology. Not to tell us what actually happened.

    As with most myths, some of it is probably grounded in some actual events. But that is not the purpose or significance of the story. So for me, the fact that those people were not enslaved in Egypt is irrelevant to the value and meaning of the story.
     
  19. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, that might be why the Israelites were forced to build a store city and not a pyramid or temple.

    It conveys the idea that YHWH is greater than the gods of Egypt and it (along with the stories of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) sets the stage for why YHWH is the King and God of Israel and their redeemer,,,,,,,,,,,, and why the land of Canaan belonged to Israel etc. etc
    To me if it did not happen then the whole thing is no more than a fabrication and lie. And I guess that is how you feel about it also.
    The interesting thing is that it looks like the remains of non slave Hebrews have been found at Goshen (where the story says Israel stayed while in Egypt) and at the right time (given the Biblical dating for the Exodus) And given that dating the conquest remains in Canaan agree with the story of the conquest in Joshua.
    Of course there is the thing about the story being unbelievable because of the miracles, the usual naturalistic way of reading such stories.

    If it is not true does the story have any value and meaning apart from being an origins myth? just as all the other supernatural miracles and prophecies etc in the OT are explained away in the same manner. (they are unbelievable) Till the OT becomes nothing but a big pack of lies when it comes to anything serious about God,,,,,,,,,,,, and the NT is dealt with in a similar manner.
    But that is the way many people believe and see it.
    To believe there is a possibility for a creator God to exist then people who say that they would believe if there was evidence, should really say that the OT and NT stories could possibly be true and not that they are unbelievable-------------thereby eliminating and denying the actual evidence.
     
  20. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for the Christian view of these questions, but I can give a few Torath Mosheh perspective. See the following below and also the attached.

    ‎‏אהב עבר‏‎'s answer to Is there any archaeological proof at all for the biblical Exodus? - Quora

    ‎‏אהב עבר‏‎'s answer to If Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible why didn’t he write about the pyramids since he knew the Pharaohs who would have been buried there especially Joseph who lived hundreds of years before? - Quora

    The following book may help. I have only read the Hebrew version so I don't know how well everything translated into English.
    [​IMG]

    Egyptian Lawyers who supposidly planned on suing Jews, world wide, for gold taken out Egypt during Exodus
     

    Attached Files:

    #20 Ehav4Ever, Aug 23, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
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