Economic Slavery

[Kooky]

Employees have the same right, ie, to quit whenever
for whatever reason, no matter what trouble it causes.

And the Queen of England and the homeless both are likewise punished when they are found sleeping under the bridge.

Equality for all, isn't it lovely?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's gotta be feeding to begin with.

Employees aren't being compensated as agreed?
If so, they should quit. But for those who are being
paid agreed to wages & bennies, don't bite that hand.
I've had employees steal, shirk, & sabotage. They
lost their jobs. I've no obligation to support them.

Being blamed for everything (even after I was gone), wages shorted, degrading demands, no promised raises or raises for promotion, being told you're off the assignment about an hour before your shift begins, at times it feels more like biting the hand that slaps.

There are bad employers & bad employees.
Are you generalizing based upon only the former,
without considering the latter or the general case
of employers doing as agreed?

 

[Revoltingest]

Its also bad practice to mistreat one's 'pets', if we're going to look at it in those terms.

I like "at will" work & employment. Let anyone terminate
employment that doesn't suit either for a whole host of
reasons. I am not my employees' parent.
Of course, each should treat the other well because an
adversarial relationship is unprofitable.

 

[Revoltingest]

Another good one is "you have nothing to lose but your chains".

Oh, brother....another employee who thinks he's a slave.

 

[Revoltingest]

And the Queen of England and the homeless both are likewise punished when they are found sleeping under the bridge.

Equality for all, isn't it lovely?

Your meaning isn't clear.
But it doesn't seem to address the claim that
people who work for a living are slaves.

 

[JustGeorge]

I like "at will" work & employment. Let anyone terminate
employment that doesn't suit either for a whole host of
reasons. I am not my employees' parent.
Of course, each should treat the other well because an
adversarial relationship is unprofitable.

I think "don't be a jerk" would be a good motto for both employer and employee.

Its a simple concept, but it seems so difficult for so many...

Under it, employees could do their best because it is their job, and because they know they will receive proper compensation.

Employers would properly compensate within their means, and provide safe and fair working conditions.

Both would have a clear cut out working agreement before employment began, to ensure all understood the conditions and requirements.

If both parties are fair and amicable, there's no reason it can't be a positive for both. I think the trouble is often employer and employee become too detached from one another, causing both parties to forget the other's humanness.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think "don't be a jerk" would be a good motto for both employer and employee.

Its a simple concept, but it seems so difficult for so many...

Under it, employees could do their best because it is their job, and because they know they will receive proper compensation.

Employers would properly compensate within their means, and provide safe and fair working conditions.

Both would have a clear cut out working agreement before employment began, to ensure all understood the conditions and requirements.

If both parties are fair and amicable, there's no reason it can't be a positive for both. I think the trouble is often employer and employee become too detached from one another, causing both parties to forget the other's humanness.

That's how things have gone in my experience being an
employee. I'd always been treated well in the very many
jobs I had. And most of my employees were pretty good.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are bad employers & bad employees.
Are you generalizing based upon only the former,
without considering the latter or the general case
of employers doing as agreed?

Yes, I am generalizing that US workers need more rights and protections, amd to hell with the mentality of "if you don't someone else will." It serves no one any good when crap employers thrive because they can depend on a revolving door of people who need work. There's no reason we should have to put up with this when the rest of Western and modern world isn't.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I am generalizing that US workers need more rights and protections, amd to hell with the mentality of "if you don't someone else will." It serves no one any good when crap employers thrive because they can depend on a revolving door of people who need work. There's no reason we should have to put up with this when the rest of Western and modern world isn't.

There's no reason employers should be forced by law
to keep employees they don't want. The lazy, the stupid,
the thieving, the redundant....let'm go. We are not your
parents, forced by law to care for you. Time to learn
independence.
If employees who aren't needed want to be supported,
let government do that. There are unemployment insurance,
welfare, public housing, food stamps, etc. Of course, the
UBI would be better than those.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There's no reason employers should be forced by law
to keep employees they don't want. The lazy, the stupid,
the thieving, the redundant....let'm go. We are not your
parents, forced by law to care for you. Time to learn
independence.
If employees who aren't needed want to be supported,
let government do that. There are unemployment insurance,
welfare, public housing, food stamps, etc. Of course, the
UBI would be better than those.

I'm not talking about employees who are lazy thieves. I'm talking about employers who get away with crapping on their workers because there's going to be more who need any job they can take.
If we lived in a perfect world the government wouldn't have to step in. But we don't live in that world and they have to make various laws. Other countries aren't afraid to protect workers. Why won't America? We clearly need it.

 

[JustGeorge]

That's how things have gone in my experience being an
employee. I'd always been treated well in the very many
jobs I had. And most of my employees were pretty good.

I got along well with my employers. They got along well with me. The trouble was, they weren't the top of the 'food chain' and a lot of policy that negatively affected me, them, and the clients were made by folks higher up the food chain. That, combined with low pay(one could live off it, with roommates and ramen noodles) made for high turnover in a place that really needed employees that could stick around for more than a year or two.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Employees aren't being compensated as agreed?

And, yes, that has applied to me, with at least three jobs I've had.
And it's more than just pay. The one job that shorted me, one of the managers erased the schedule to take me off days I was scheduled to give it to her **** buddy, and she gave me demeaning and degrading tasks, telling me to "get on my hands and knees and scrub under the sink with a toothbrush." I walked out. Then walked back in, explained things to the GM, and that manager wasn't fired.
And one job where they wouldn't give me the one day off a week a was promised, never took me off the board, and wouldn't even give me a needed break for medical reasons.
Yes, sometimes it really is biting the hand that slaps. Especially when I'm being lied to.

 

[Heyo]

Employees aren't being compensated as agreed?

Let's say employees are often uninformed about the circumstances. When you hire me and we agree on, let's say $25/h it seems to be fair at first. Later I find out you bill your customers $85 for my work and have a $10 overhead, I might rethink if I made the right decision.

 

[Hold]

Let's say employees are often uninformed about the circumstances. When you hire me and we agree on, let's say $25/h it seems to be fair at first. Later I find out you bill your customers $85 for my work and have a $10 overhead, I might rethink if I made the right decision.

Something similar to your post happened to me. I had agreed to work for an amount ,so that's on me as far as my way of thinking. However, after six months I asked for a raise and mentioned I felt like the job was worth more money. I still felt like the employer gets to set the final wage level. I did receive a nice raise; the employer said he was happy with my work. His saying that is important to me, not all employers feel comfortable giving an employee a compliment.

 

[Heyo]

Something similar to your post happened to me. I had agreed to work for an amount ,so that's on me as far as my way of thinking. However, after six months I asked for a raise and mentioned I felt like the job was worth more money. I still felt like the employer gets to set the final wage level. I did receive a nice raise; the employer said he was happy with my work.

But he was also happy with paying you less until you asked.

 

[Hold]

Well, there is a learning curve to each new job. The employer doesn't get all the return on each hour he would like until the employee becomes truly productive. Just finding a job can be a big lift to your self esteem. One of my later coworkers used to say,'Don't pat me on my back,Bossut it in the darn pay check!

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not talking about employees who are lazy thieves. I'm talking about employers who get away with crapping on their workers because there's going to be more who need any job they can take.

Is the existence of some bad employers & some workers
who are incapable of finding a different job a good reason
to over-regulate employers, illegalize employment at will,
& force employers to become guardians/caretakers?

If we lived in a perfect world the government wouldn't have to step in. But we don't live in that world and they have to make various laws. Other countries aren't afraid to protect workers. Why won't America? We clearly need it.

Some laws are useful. Others are counter-productive.
If you've ever hired workers, you know that some must
be laid off or fired. Let business handle business, &
government take care of workers who never became
independent adults, & are of no use.

 

[Revoltingest]

I got along well with my employers. They got along well with me. The trouble was, they weren't the top of the 'food chain' and a lot of policy that negatively affected me, them, and the clients were made by folks higher up the food chain. That, combined with low pay(one could live off it, with roommates and ramen noodles) made for high turnover in a place that really needed employees that could stick around for more than a year or two.

Liberals are proposing eliminating at will employment.
Perhaps they'll next propose eliminating the employee's
right to quit....that'll fix the turnover problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

And, yes, that has applied to me, with at least three jobs I've had.
And it's more than just pay. The one job that shorted me, one of the managers erased the schedule to take me off days I was scheduled to give it to her **** buddy, and she gave me demeaning and degrading tasks, telling me to "get on my hands and knees and scrub under the sink with a toothbrush." I walked out. Then walked back in, explained things to the GM, and that manager wasn't fired.
And one job where they wouldn't give me the one day off a week a was promised, never took me off the board, and wouldn't even give me a needed break for medical reasons.
Yes, sometimes it really is biting the hand that slaps. Especially when I'm being lied to.

Heaven forbid that government ever steps in with broad
public policy & micro-regulation to prevent the weird kinds
of problems you've had on jobs. How on Earth do you
inspire employers to treat you that way?

My youngest sister had terrible problems follower her
around from job to job. She also got into vicious fights
with her neighbors everywhere she lived (escalating
to gun play & law suits that bankrupted her & hubby).
It was always the boss's or neighbors' fault....never hers.
But in reality, it was how she conducted herself (very
entitled & hostile).
Not saying you're like her, but if problems follow one around,
then one should consider that it's not everyone else's fault.

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's say employees are often uninformed about the circumstances. When you hire me and we agree on, let's say $25/h it seems to be fair at first. Later I find out you bill your customers $85 for my work and have a $10 overhead, I might rethink if I made the right decision.

You describe a common problem in the construction business.
Employees discover that the contractor marks up their work,
charging far more than the employee is paid. The employee
feels unfairly exploited. They never understand that the
contractor takes all the risk of unpaid call-backs, pays to fix
the employee's errors, faces customers who don't pay,
covers all the overhead of tools, trucks, facilities, payroll
taxes, liability insurance, unemployment insurance, etc.
Without a profit, there's no reason for the employer to
ever hire you in the first place.

I know so many of these guys who strike out on their own
so that they can earn the big bucks. Then the reality sets
in....their skills on the job aren't as good as they thought
without the experienced contractor guiding them...running
a business is much harder than performing a trade....to
design & enforce a contract is much more difficult than
anticipated....collecting debts is harder than they thought.

$25/hr paid vs $85/hr billed is a pretty reasonable margin.