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Eat the Rich

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Secret Chief, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Veteran Member

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    History shows us that without government intervention and working unions, corporations are far, far worse than either. Without both, we'd basically still be living with no anti-child labour laws and zero workers rights.

    To champion business while decrying states and unions belies a fundamental lack of understanding of history. While none are spotless, two out of three are clearly more interested in helping workers - or,at least, better things happen for them when they exist.
     
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  2. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Veteran Member

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    What misconceptions have I expressed?
     
  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    ....illustrates the possibilities.
    I offered it as that, not as proof of anything.
    But regarding anecdotes, I've known many many people
    who are barely scraping by, & the vast majority simply
    don't do what it takes to get ahead, eg, not stealing from
    employers (I've had a bunch'o those), not trying to learn
    new skills, not showing any initiative.
    I've also known a few with mental illness genuinely
    preventing their being employable. But they're a minority.
     
  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Oh, brother....another personal definition.
    So few of us use dictionaries these days.
     
  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    It's humorous....that's all.
     
  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    there is nothing in capitalism that says interest and profit should be put ahead of the common good.
     
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  7. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    Such as China and North Korea eh? (the usual examples cited by fans of capitalism)
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Do you really see no difference between studying physics,
    & studying art history, victimization studies, women's studies, etc.
    Physics uses skills applicable to engineering, economics, systems
    analysis, etc, etc.
    Physicists with PhDs are often hired to for "quant" work at private
    equity companies. Their analytical skills have broad application.
     
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  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Similarly, there is nothing in the definition of socialism
    that favors progressive values, liberty, democracy, or
    economic equality of the classes.
    Too many socialists define "socialism" as their utopic
    dream. But they define "capitalism" in terms of their
    worst nightmare. Double standard, eh.
     
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  10. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Veteran Member

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    Capitalism isn't a philosophy - it's an economic system in which progress is driven by profit. That is the core of capitalism. There is no "capitalist doctrine" which decrees "thou art not a capitalism if thou art putting forward profit over common good - theneth thy be BAD CAPITALISM''.

    Profit over common good is merely the inevitable result of capitalism. You can call it "bad capitalism" if you want, but it's an enviable result of the capitalist system. You cannot really avoid it.

    The best you can really do is have strong regulation and strong unions to curtail it.
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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  12. Rival

    Rival Dex Me Gart
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    I've often wondered where this belief came from.
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    N Korea fits the definition perfectly.
    China embraced capitalism with a vengeance though.
    Alas, they retained the authoritarian government so
    typical of socialism. But they're better off than before,
    eg, free to travel, more food.
     
  14. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    What works "best" (for the capitalist) is price rigging. The naïve notion of the "invisible hand" only works when corporations don't (or can't) co-operate. In the real world "breakfast talks" set the prices.
     
    #114 Heyo, Sep 20, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Their dream of a utopia.
    They imagine that a socialist system would change
    human behavior, eg, they'd become altruistic, they'd
    stop being greedy. Problem is that those pesky humans
    will still have their inherent tendencies.
    Economic systems should be designed based upon
    criteria of how humans actually behave, not on how
    they should behave. Behavioral economics is very
    illuminating & informative regarding public policy.
     
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  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    I disagree. Free markets are better for us than
    inflexible ones such as those that arise in monopolies.
    Regulation, such as monopoly prevention, can be
    useful in optimizing capitalist system performance.

    BTW, if rigging is bad, then socialism would be one
    of the worst systems. This is because (empirically)
    government fixes prices.
     
  17. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    And vice versa. That's the problem, it becomes an all or nothing for a lot people and I don't think that's necessary.
     
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  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Instead, what I seen from conservatives is the same
    wrong definition used by liberals, ie, that "socialism"
    is about the social welfare system. So both sides
    will call Scandinavian countries "socialist".
     
  19. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    This is a good point. And let's not ignore the role credit plays in capitalism. The easy credit that banks dole out let's people buy stuff they can't afford. They often end up in huge financial debt and default sometimes. The American Dream is now all paid for with credit.
     
  20. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    Sure, and I've seen conservatives use the term socialism for environmental regulations.

    If both systems have elements to offer that will have positive impacts for humanity, we shouldn't be so concerned about throwing the labels at each other as political weapons.
     
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