Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy Only: I have questions, if you'd like to engage.

[SageTree]

Hello Friends,


I'm wondering a couple of things and from what I've read some Orthodox ideas/philosophies/theologies capture my understanding in my Practice and I would like to more specifically know more about the Orthodox Traditions of Christianity, both Eastern and Oriental.


Is there a 'good book' that you'd recommend as a good intro/starter.
I feel I can grasp ideas that are fairly well rooted in terminology and don't mind a dry read, in other words.
Maybe you can help?

I'm interested in things like 'Theoria', 'Theosis', what 'salvation' means, what is the death of Jesus mean (generally speaking), how is 'sin' understood/made right, just a few that spring to mind.

There are more... believe me.

I made a thread called 'Christian Mysticism and other explorations' a while ago, in which I outline things that interest me, that have grasped my understanding, inspired me and things I've looked into, of which was Orthodoxy. If you'd like to read and respond there, that is okay.... but here is just as fine of course.


Thanks for your time and help.

Currently I attend an Anglican Church, which when I review it's theology I see they lean towards Orthodox understandings over Roman Catholicism as well as other Protestant sects. Perhaps these 'teachings' are why I find the Anglican Church suitable and helpful to my Practice...

However... I'm curious about Orthodoxy.

I enjoy reading about Christian/Church history and would like to understand Orthodoxy, early Church understandings and theological concepts with a more Orthodox view.


Thanks.

:namaste
SageTree

 

[Biblestudent_007]

From my POV, the Orthodox faith is learned by attending the Divine Liturgy on a regular basis. Yes, a read a variety of different books that inspired me to convert but in the end not attending the weekly liturgical services will leave alot to be desired. (Can't afford the gas $ required to commuted to the Metroplex every weekend.)

For an Eastern/Oriental perspective, I recommned Christ the Eternal Tao.

. . .

 

[xkatz]

For an Eastern/Oriental perspective, I recommned Christ the Eternal Tao.

I think SageTree might have meant the Oriental Orthodox Church (ie Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Syriac, San Tomar), NOT literally as in East Asian.

 

[rsd]

You ask about a good book. My favorite is "The Way of the Pilgrim" by Helen Bacovcin. But I'm sure you have already read it.

 

[SageTree]

I think SageTree might have meant the Oriental Orthodox Church (ie Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Syriac, San Tomar), NOT literally as in East Asian.

While the book IS a good recommendation and I'll look into it.

Yes... in the Orthodox Christian DIR, I was, in fact, asking about only Orthodox Christianity.

But hey! I got a bonus response with the book!

You ask about a good book. My favorite is "The Way of the Pilgrim" by Helen Bacovcin. But I'm sure you have already read it.

Actually I haven't
Is this fiction or non?

What I'm hoping to find is something that:
A. Brings the core beliefs and theology out in a narrative.
B. And most of all, B, I would like a good dry, straight forward read in the non-fict. arena.

Thanks though, I will go search this one up immediately.

:namaste
SageTree

 

[rsd]

Is this fiction or non?

What I'm hoping to find is something that:
A. Brings the core beliefs and theology out in a narrative.
B. And most of all, B, I would like a good dry, straight forward read in the non-fict. arena.

Thanks though, I will go search this one up immediately.

:namaste
SageTree

I think The Way of the Pilgrim fits the bill. I've read it around 8 times over the years. Must be something to it.

 

[SageTree]

Searched it up... 'Way of the Pilgrim' and remember seeing it on my friends bookshelf in her 'Essential' series, which I think is a Harper-Collins release. I was house sitting and opted to read 'Essential Kabbalah' however. But I do recognize this book and did leaf through it quickly to see what was inside. This is one I'll go back to and read for sure.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

[beenie]

**Mod Post**

Please note the title change and post accordingly. Thank you.​

 

[Chewbarker1054]

Timithy Ware - now Bishop Kalistos has a fantastic book 'The Orthodox Church'

 

[SageTree]

Thank you.

How would you say the information is worked through. Narrative or more text book?

 

[Chewbarker1054]

BIshop Kalistons is quite famous here in the uk as one of the first to convert to the Orthodox Church and then to become a Bishop. He has a very easy style to read and his other book 'The Orthodox Way' he looks at Orthodox theology in depth

 

[Biblestudent_007]

How would you say the information is worked through. Narrative or more text book?

That book is a classic "the Orthodox Church" by T. Ware is a combination of explaining dogma and history.

 

[Biblestudent_007]

I think SageTree might have meant the Oriental Orthodox Church (ie Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Syriac, San Tomar), NOT literally as in East Asian.

There probably is a "East Asian" Christian Church.

 

[SageTree]

Bump.

 

[Shiranui117]

Hello Friends,

I'm wondering a couple of things and from what I've read some Orthodox ideas/philosophies/theologies capture my understanding in my Practice and I would like to more specifically know more about the Orthodox Traditions of Christianity, both Eastern and Oriental.

Is there a 'good book' that you'd recommend as a good intro/starter.
I feel I can grasp ideas that are fairly well rooted in terminology and don't mind a dry read, in other words.
Maybe you can help?

I don't know what books there are in regards to Oriental Orthodoxy, sadly. However, from the Eastern Orthodox side, you have the already-mentioned "The Orthodox Church" by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware. His other well-known book, "The Orthodox Way," covers much more of Orthodox spirituality, and how we view God and our relationship to Him.

I'm interested in things like 'Theoria', 'Theosis', what 'salvation' means, what is the death of Jesus mean (generally speaking), how is 'sin' understood/made right, just a few that spring to mind.

"The Orthodox Way" discusses each of these topics quite well, I think.

Here's also a short little primer on Theosis. For a Scriptural basis of Theosis, that article mentions 2 Peter 1:4. I'll also add in 2 Corinthians 3:18.

The Orthodox view of atonement consists of the following positions:
Christus Victor
Moral Influence
Ransom Theory (Note: The ransom is NOT being paid to Satan, as the article says. Rather, the ransom is being paid to Death)
Recapitulation

A friend of mine actually compiled something that I think will be quite helpful to you, in understanding the Orthodox view of sin and salvation, and how it differs from Western Christian explanations: Why I Cannot In Good Conscience Be A Protestant

If you would like to see Scriptural support for the Orthodox view of atonement, let me know, and I'll be happy to oblige.

I made a thread called 'Christian Mysticism and other explorations' a while ago, in which I outline things that interest me, that have grasped my understanding, inspired me and things I've looked into, of which was Orthodoxy. If you'd like to read and respond there, that is okay.... but here is just as fine of course.

Thanks for your time and help.

I'll be sure to check that out.

Currently I attend an Anglican Church, which when I review it's theology I see they lean towards Orthodox understandings over Roman Catholicism as well as other Protestant sects. Perhaps these 'teachings' are why I find the Anglican Church suitable and helpful to my Practice...

One thing I'd like to ask, have you ever considered attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy before?

I've noticed the Orthodox influence in Anglicanism as well. The Anglicans, from what I've read, seem to have an Orthodox understanding of Christ's crucifixion and Resurrection: That is, He did not die to appease the Father's wrath or to exploit a loophole in God's legal code. Rather, Christ died to fully share in our humanity; we Orthodox often say "That which is not assumed is not healed." Once Christ had died, he had shared in the fulness of the human experience, since we humans are prone to death, thanks to the consequences of Adam's sin. Also, by dying, Christ trampled down death. By rising from the dead, Christ destroyed death's hold over us, and just as Christ shared in our humanity by dying, so also we can now share in God's life by being raised up to new life in Christ.

St. John Chrysostom's Paschal Sermon, read yearly in the Orthodox Church, sums it up quite well:

Hell, said he, was embittered, when it encountered Thee in the lower regions. It was embittered, for it was abolished. It was embittered, for it was mocked. It was embittered, for it was slain. It was embittered, for it was overthrown. It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains. It took a body, and met God face to face. It took earth, and encountered Heaven. It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen. O Death, where is your sting? O Hell, where is your victory? Christ is risen, and you are overthrown. Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen. Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice. Christ is risen, and life reigns. Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave. For Christ, being risen from the dead, is become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. To Him be glory and dominion unto ages of ages. Amen.

However... I'm curious about Orthodoxy.

I enjoy reading about Christian/Church history and would like to understand Orthodoxy, early Church understandings and theological concepts with a more Orthodox view.

I'm going to give you a link to a website used by Catholics, Orthodox and tradition-minded Protestants alike. In it, you will find the writings of the Church Fathers, as well as all the texts we have of the Seven Ecumenical Councils. If you want the Orthodox view, reading the works of the Eastern Fathers (Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Polycarp, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Basil the Great, and Cyprian, to name a handful) will give you a pretty comprehensive view of Orthodox theology!

Browse by Author (S) - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Look under "Schaff, Philip." For the text of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, you'll find them under NPNF2-14. For the writings of the Fathers before the Council of Nicaea, the volumes beginning with ANF will be the ones you want. For the Fathers during the period of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, the rest of the NPNF group is where you'll find them.

Also, St. John of Damascus (lived in the 6-700's) wrote a volume called "An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith."

 

[SageTree]

I don't know what books there are in regards to Oriental Orthodoxy, sadly. However, from the Eastern Orthodox side, you have the already-mentioned "The Orthodox Church" by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware. His other well-known book, "The Orthodox Way," covers much more of Orthodox spirituality, and how we view God and our relationship to Him.

"The Orthodox Way" discusses each of these topics quite well, I think.

Here's also a short little primer on Theosis. For a Scriptural basis of Theosis, that article mentions 2 Peter 1:4. I'll also add in 2 Corinthians 3:18.

The Orthodox view of atonement consists of the following positions:
Christus Victor
Moral Influence
Ransom Theory (Note: The ransom is NOT being paid to Satan, as the article says. Rather, the ransom is being paid to Death)
Recapitulation

A friend of mine actually compiled something that I think will be quite helpful to you, in understanding the Orthodox view of sin and salvation, and how it differs from Western Christian explanations: Why I Cannot In Good Conscience Be A Protestant

If you would like to see Scriptural support for the Orthodox view of atonement, let me know, and I'll be happy to oblige.

I'll be sure to check that out.

Wow, Friend... amazing amazing amount of info there... Thank you.

One thing I'd like to ask, have you ever considered attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy before?

I have attended Coptic Orthodox Liturgy 3 times.
Although the languages used (Coptic/Greek/Arabic) escaped me.
And I think he helped me out with using more English the times I went.

Amazing experience.

I've noticed the Orthodox influence in Anglicanism as well. The Anglicans, from what I've read, seem to have an Orthodox understanding of Christ's crucifixion and Resurrection: That is, He did not die to appease the Father's wrath or to exploit a loophole in God's legal code. Rather, Christ died to fully share in our humanity; we Orthodox often say "That which is not assumed is not healed." Once Christ had died, he had shared in the fulness of the human experience, since we humans are prone to death, thanks to the consequences of Adam's sin. Also, by dying, Christ trampled down death. By rising from the dead, Christ destroyed death's hold over us, and just as Christ shared in our humanity by dying, so also we can now share in God's life by being raised up to new life in Christ.

Nicely said, and comforting.

[quote]

St. John Chrysostom's Paschal Sermon, read yearly in the Orthodox Church, sums it up quite well:

I'm going to give you a link to a website used by Catholics, Orthodox and tradition-minded Protestants alike. In it, you will find the writings of the Church Fathers, as well as all the texts we have of the Seven Ecumenical Councils. If you want the Orthodox view, reading the works of the Eastern Fathers (Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Polycarp, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Basil the Great, and Cyprian, to name a handful) will give you a pretty comprehensive view of Orthodox theology!

Browse by Author (S) - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
Look under "Schaff, Philip." For the text of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, you'll find them under NPNF2-14. For the writings of the Fathers before the Council of Nicaea, the volumes beginning with ANF will be the ones you want. For the Fathers during the period of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, the rest of the NPNF group is where you'll find them.

Also, St. John of Damascus (lived in the 6-700's) wrote a volume called "An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith."[/quote]

Again.... more amazing sources.

This is singularly one of the most information packed posts I've read it a while.

**Bookmarked**

:namaste
SageTree