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Featured Easily Offended

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Heyo, May 22, 2022.

  1. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    The fool says in his heart "there is no god".
    You just want to sin.
    You have no morals.

    You are illogical.
    You don't know science.
    You are delusional.

    When a religious debate gets heated the above are insults thrown around. You may shrug at them or flag the post for violation of Rule #3. I have a suspicion that the religious are more easily offended than atheists but I am biased. 1. I am an Agnostic (and therefore an atheist) and 2. near impossible to offend and, applying the Golden Rule, don't think I'm offending. I know that not everyone sees it that way. What is your take on offending language? Where's the limit? Where should be the lawful limit, where the limit on RF?

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    #1 Heyo, May 22, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2022
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  2. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Veteran Member

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    I promised to not take part in Religious discussion or debate at any cost in RF, I will stick to that rule.
    My only answer to you or others who may take part in your thread is.

    I am not personally offended by you or anybody else, but i chose to stand up for people who have experienced the same hateful comments toward religions or religious belief as I have experienced in RF as a believer.

    This is the only reply i do in this thread or any other religious discussion/debate.

    No need to try to get me to reply again. I won't reply again.
     
    #2 Seeker of White Light, May 22, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2022
  3. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    People are easily offended just in general.
    The folks crying about cancel culture?
    (And I’m not directing that at anyone here, just to be clear.)
    How offended in the first place are they to be crying about that to begin with?
    Everyone has sensibilities and everyone cries when they’re challenged. That’s just a fact
    (I’m using “everyone” as a stand in for just in general.)
     
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  4. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    I didn't expect you to. That's why I put "for information" in the tag. I want to know more how others think about the subject but not ask that in your thread. And you might also be interested to read while not participating. Up to you.
     
  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    That's my thought, or that criticism is somehow for some reason synonymous with bullying.

    Bullying to me is harassment of an individual and not a criticism of what a belief entails or is supposed to mean.

    Just because a religion goes through a crucible, dosent mean that person is being bullied.

    It's kind of crazy at that type of insulation that a religion cannot be critiqued because someone yells that they are being bullied when they are not.
     
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  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Let me give you an example.
    A person says his system of truth is a form of coherence and thus not correspondence. He then claims that he know what the metaphysical status of objective reality is in itself.
    I pointed out, that he was wrong. He didn't take it well.

    I learned from that and has stopped doing that.
    So in general I have never seem evidence for a person being a negative just because someone says so. And that is not limited to wrong. Indeed in social science and psychology you can learn the following.
    Wrong is wrong. It has at least 2 meanings depending on usage of meaning of the "is".
     
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  7. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    Too many are equivocating criticism with bullying and difference of opinion with ignorance or hatefulness. I've seen some things that seem to get close to attacking or harassment. Lots of childishness as well. Most here don't actually violate RF rules. Some skate right on the edge.

    If you can't take the heat get out of the fire.

    Imagine if I blew a gasket every time someone mentioned the Devil in a negative light. He's the Devil, the thickest skin ever. A role model for taking the heat and giving right back. :D
     
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  8. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, the other side in real life is that demeaning people can cause harm.
     
  9. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    Rules are necessary to keep things in order otherwise perfectly good conversations derail and intelligent members might become discouraged and leave the forum because they feel they are not being respected.
    Personally I don't get offended easily, mostly because I don't take things personally. I find it tiresome and useless to get upset about every little thing. There are better uses for my time.
     
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  10. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    I wholeheartedly agree.
    Too often I have seen folks (regardless of political affiliation) cry because I dared criticise the stance of their favoured delegate/leader/content creator

    I can understand pushback if the criticism is in bad faith. We should all endeavour to argue logically and rationally.
    Criticism should always be on the stances the person takes, rather than their personal foibles, imo.
    But regardless

    I have seen just as many so called “meltdowns” from the GOP as the radical SJWs/leftists.
    To me this isn’t a political issue in the slightest. It’s a person issue.


    We need to detach ourselves from our preferred leaders, content creators, streamers whatever.
    Someone wants to bash the political party I voted for? I’ll join them. As I would hope any sane person would. That’s how we keep them honest, imo
     
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  11. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    That's a shame, as I am curious what "hateful pusg" is? Could you quote some or link it being aimed at religious beliefs.
     
  12. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I think that RF rules should just ban hate speech that advocates violence.

    I like having a ban on ad-hominem as a guide, but really I do suspect some people of lying/misinformation, and feel it is more productive to call them out than have a hard rule which penalises people for exposing liars.

    As far as critiquing religions go, I see those who can't deal with it as having a character defect which requires rectification to be frank.

    In my opinion.
     
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  13. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    Equally laughable. o_O
     
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  14. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    Look at your keyboard and ask yourself which key he may have missed and got an adjacent one.
     
  15. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    Dear Heyo,

    I’d say that it is pride that makes Man offended. The prouder a person, the easier it is to get under their skin - even accidentally.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
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  16. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    ... and anything else criminal in the US (or most of the world) like libel and slander. I personally wouldn't even flag libel against me and just correct it but the option should be there as not everyone is able to defend themselves.
     
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  17. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    That may be but I have a different hypothesis.
    It is insecurity.
    If I feel offended, I ask myself where I have unresolved insecurities. I see it as my responsibility to know myself, to agree when someone rightfully points out a flaw and do something against it. When I am sure that I don't have that flaw, I can answer it without it first getting to me emotionally.
    I don't expect others to follow that philosophy but I can be insensitive (especially online) because of my philosophy.
     
    #17 Heyo, May 22, 2022
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
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  18. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect fragile egos.
     
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  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    Its a bad translation and taken out of context, so you could point that out if feeling generous. The psalm is about patience, waiting for oppression to end. The psalm is poetic and has poetic license. Its not a denunciation of atheism. If somebody wants to assure themselves that they are wise this is not a foolproof way to do it.

    'God' is a term not coined as early as David, and 'Fool' does not really bridge the gap, either. 'God' is translated badly from the Hebrew term 'Elohim' which here refers to the congregation of the righteous. The congregation of the righteous are elohim, and the oppressors are 'Children of men'. Its a poetic usage with precedents in other scriptures. Its not like I'm pulling this out of thin air.​

    True or rule 1 or 9 or 8. It depends, and the treatment of insults has changed slightly in the last few years. I think we mostly used rule 1 when I first came to the forum, but the concept is not to insult people in order to make points or to vent. Keeping feelings cool is the goal. Sometimes we don't allow certain language merely because it riles people up.

    "You just want to sin." ---
    Sounds like ad hominem. It could be a religious debate topic, unless it is personalized to 'You' or 'All of you'. In other words, religious people must discuss whether disbelief comes from the desire to sin. It has to be a permitted topic in a religious forum. Saying "You don't believe because you desire to sin" is not appropriate. Starting a debate in a much less personal way is allowed such as a debate titled "Does disbelief come from a desire to sin?"​

    "You have no morals." ---
    Unfair as character assassination. Religion is about what is moral, so the nature of morality has to be discussed. The nature of morality is also fair game as a philosophical question. Some people do believe that there are no morals without religious faith. They must be allowed to discuss it, however they don't have permission to insult people. This is where rules alone aren't enough to determine what is insult and what is discussion of concepts. It may require intelligent deliberation by staff. The goal is not to get people upset if possible and to keep all of the feet in the pool. ​

    "You are illogical."
    Could be ad hominem. Could be insulting. Kind of hard to say without looking at the post.​

    "You don't know science." ---
    Most people don't know Science. Is it an insult? Context matters here. RF does not take a stance on what is scientific....with the exception of Covid 19 resources. RF does not officially declare any support for scientific consensus. We allow crackpot science and real science. We have a paranormal Dir, too.​

    "You are delusional." --
    probably an insult. Could be warned about rules 1 or 3 or 9, maybe 8. Even if the person is obviously delusional its against rules to tell them that they are. There is no way for a person to prove they aren't delusional.​
     
    #19 Brickjectivity, May 22, 2022
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
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  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Student People Stabber

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    I strongly agree on both points.
     
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