Drunk,pork,homosexual what Bible tells ?

[leibowde84]

thanks for correct my info , i though it's forbidden in OT .

i checked , i find Torah is against to be very drunk , NOT against drinking .

the update is happened just in pork , i guess .

Yeah, and it's a bit sketchy how St. Paul got away with it. I would suggest reading some skeptical reviews of his writings. Very interesting stuff.

 

[VargDrakon]

None of this goes against my claim. Whether you believe Paul had authority to express the will of God (which I don't), he was still a biblical author. Along with all of the mentions of homosexuality in the OT, there are "multiple biblical authors" that say that homosexuality is not OK.

Fair enough. I was trying to show that not all Christians agree with, as your post seemed to me to imply, that the entire NT is one unified revelation of equal worth.

Yeah, and it's a bit sketchy how St. Paul got away with it. I would suggest reading some skeptical reviews of his writings. Very interesting stuff.

Remember that Paul was not alone in this. See Mark 7:14-19 and Matthew 15:10-14. The former goes as far as flat out proclaiming that Jesus declared all food clean. (At least in some translations, due to Greek grammar there is some ambiguity as to whether the line "making all food clean" refers back to the preceding verb or forward to the following verb.)

 

[leibowde84]

Fair enough. I was trying to show that not all Christians agree with, as your post seemed to me to imply, that the entire NT is one unified revelation of equal worth.


Remember that Paul was not alone in this. See Mark 7:14-19 and Matthew 15:10-14. The former goes as far as flat out proclaiming that Jesus declared all food clean. (At least in some translations, due to Greek grammar there is some ambiguity as to whether the line "making all food clean" refers back to the preceding verb or forward to the following verb.)

Oh yeah ... please don't get me wrong. I am a Christian, and I think that homosexuals make the world a better place ... wholeheartedly. It makes me sick that people still buy the crap spewed about homosexuality in the Bible today. Human imperfection and ignorance is a strong thing ... even powerful enough to overcome a divine message, imho.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Hi all

I am little confused if Alchohol,Pork,Homosex are clearly forbiden , if YES, then why then why most of Christians did not follow their Bible , by eat pork,drink alchohol, and agree with homosexual ?

please reply with scriptures from Bible ?

Most are very lost my friend. They have been let astray by the ancient Roman Catholic Church and Pagans and greed. This is something that is currently being repaired. Thank you. With all respect. Under God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I have lots of beliefs. Many of them are very much in synch with the majority of Catholics. Fewer than you might think get all theological under normal circumstances. You don't get to nearly a billion members by sweating the small stuff.

Like most religious organizations of size there are really three components. Actions, theology, and community. Two out of three isn't bad.
There really is no objective definition of Christian. It is whatever someone thinks it is.
Tom

If a church bases its actions towards the community off of flawed theology then the outcome is negative and not under God or from God and it's twisted representation.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Depends on the context. I might very well under certain circumstances. I have a lot of very nuanced views about things.
And I have been "accused" of being a closet Christian by people before. There are many different meanings and understandings of the term.

Normally I won't, out of respect for people's feelings and a wish to avoid pointless confusion. I often just point out that charity and Christianity are two different things.
Tom

Interesting. As I'm sure you know, they really aren't supposed to be different. Charity is supposed to be a very big part of Christianity.

 

[popsthebuilder]

That's why I don't drink or smoke, I'm not gay, nor do I eat pork (at least, I'm slowly learning to abstain).

Low amounts of pork aren't really that bad. The whole issue is gluttony or to be wasteful. Eating way too much food as other existence starves or is hungry is just wrong for multiple reasons.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Hi! One should note that the consumption of alcohol is never forbidden in the Bible, except for one who takes a nazirite vow, but even this vow is only for a limited time. There are plenty of instances in the Bible where wine is drank. In fact, Jesus's first miracle is to turn water into wine for a wedding feast. We read in the Gospel of John, chapter 2:

3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 [And] Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. 7 Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim. 8 Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it. 9 And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

From Psalm 104, the Psalmist praises God for creating and sustaining the earth. In one section it is written:

You make the grass grow for the cattle
and plants for people’s work
to bring forth food from the earth,
15 wine to gladden their hearts,
oil to make their faces shine,
and bread to sustain the human heart.

So indeed, God Himself has given us alcohol--not to get drunk (which is forbidden in no uncertain terms throughout the Bible), but rather that we can enjoy ourselves and relax once in a while.

As for pork, when the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles, the Church, led by the disciples of Jesus, decided that eating pork was allowed for the Gentiles. The Church only decreed these four things in Acts 15:28: ‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, 29 namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”

Most Christians do not agree with homosexual acts. It is against the teachings of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches, which combined make up roughly 75% of Christians. Throw in conservative Protestants who also forbid homosexual acts, and that number probably rises to somewhere around 85-90%.

That is not all we are to abstain from.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Fair enough. I was trying to show that not all Christians agree with, as your post seemed to me to imply, that the entire NT is one unified revelation of equal worth.


Remember that Paul was not alone in this. See Mark 7:14-19 and Matthew 15:10-14. The former goes as far as flat out proclaiming that Jesus declared all food clean. (At least in some translations, due to Greek grammar there is some ambiguity as to whether the line "making all food clean" refers back to the preceding verb or forward to the following verb.)

It's not the food that you eat it's the over consumption.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Oh yeah ... please don't get me wrong. I am a Christian, and I think that homosexuals make the world a better place ... wholeheartedly. It makes me sick that people still buy the crap spewed about homosexuality in the Bible today. Human imperfection and ignorance is a strong thing ... even powerful enough to overcome a divine message, imho.

Literal sodomy is forbidden.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Oh yeah ... please don't get me wrong. I am a Christian, and I think that homosexuals make the world a better place ... wholeheartedly. It makes me sick that people still buy the crap spewed about homosexuality in the Bible today. Human imperfection and ignorance is a strong thing ... even powerful enough to overcome a divine message, imho.

Violence in general is look down upon as well. Did you really just say that ignorance was a good thing? Wow. The only way you can even be saying that it's through claiming ignorance of Scripture or what Scripture is teaching you and henceforth sending this will not work.

 

[leibowde84]

Violence in general is look down upon as well. Did you really just say that ignorance was a good thing? Wow. The only way you can even be saying that it's through claiming ignorance of Scripture or what Scripture is teaching you and henceforth sending this will not work.

No, I have never claimed that ignorance was a good thing. That might be the stupidest accusation I've ever heard. I said it was "strong", which in no way means that it is good in any way shape or form, only powerful. You have a serious problem with putting words in peoples mouths. Please read more carefully. Re-read my quote and maybe you will understand this time:
"Human imperfection and ignorance is a strong thing ... even powerful enough to overcome a divine message, imho."

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, I have never claimed that ignorance was a good thing. That might be the stupidest accusation I've ever heard. I said it was "strong", which in no way means that it is good in any way shape or form, only powerful. You have a serious problem with putting words in peoples mouths. Please read more carefully. Re-read my quote and maybe you will understand this time:
"Human imperfection and ignorance is a strong thing ... even powerful enough to overcome a divine message, imho."

Overcome, is the word that was confusing as to overcome is to conquer. And to say that ignorance can conquer righteousness is nonsense.

My mystake

 

[leibowde84]

Overcome, is the word that was confusing as to overcome is to conquer. And to say that ignorance can conquer righteousness is nonsense.

My mystake

"Overcome" means to "overpower". My claim is that human imperfection and ignorance often acts to overpower or distort the actual divine message in many instances, imho. Please don't put words in my mouth in a vain attempt to strengthen your argument. You are merely creating straw-men.

 

[popsthebuilder]

"Overcome" means to "overpower". My claim is that human imperfection and ignorance often acts to overpower or distort the actual divine message in many instances, imho. Please don't put words in my mouth in a vain attempt to strengthen your argument. You are merely creating straw-men.

There is some misunderstanding, no doubt. Vanity is not in me, nor is the desire to belittle or burden you. Let us start fresh. I misunderstood you. Perhaps, you too, miss understood me.

I understand the whole putting words in the mouths of others thing as I deal with it daily.
Thanks friend.

 

[Sundance]

Low amounts of pork aren't really that bad. The whole issue is gluttony or to be wasteful. Eating way too much food as other existence starves or is hungry is just wrong for multiple reasons.

It's not an issue of gluttony or wastefulness that I am concerned about, rather, personal preference.

 

[leibowde84]

There is some misunderstanding, no doubt. Vanity is not in me, nor is the desire to belittle or burden you. Let us start fresh. I misunderstood you. Perhaps, you too, miss understood me.

I understand the whole putting words in the mouths of others thing as I deal with it daily.
Thanks friend.

Sorry. Having kind of a rotten day. No hard feelings I hope.

 

[justfoolingaround]

I see that questions about eating pork and drinking wine are by and large answered. About homosexuality, there are some pdf books on the internet which eaborates that in favour of homosexuality. I would recommend you to look for tose books because it will take too much time to cite everything from those books and from the Bible itself.
One of the best:
"Christianity and Homosexuality Reconciled"
And websites are also abundant.
http://www.gaychristian101.com/ is one with a rich archive.

 

[17 Gen r]

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20.13)

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of Yahweh. (Deuteronomy 23.1)

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto Yahweh thy God. (Deuteronomy 22.5)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Roman 1.18-32)

But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know [have an affair with] them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. (Genesis 19.4-7)

Then Yahweh rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. (Genesis 19.24, 25)

 

[17 Gen r]

Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing. These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois. And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat. Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase. (Deuteronomy 14.3-8)

What "Christians" should expect:

I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These area smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith Yahweh, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

Thus saith Yahweh, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.

But ye are they that forsake Yahweh, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Therefore thus saith the lord Yahweh, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:

Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the lord Yahweh shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. (Isaiah 65.1-16)