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Drunk,pork,homosexual what Bible tells ?

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Hi all

I am little confused if Alchohol,Pork,Homosex are clearly forbiden , if YES, then why then why most of Christians did not follow their Bible , by eat pork,drink alchohol, and agree with homosexual ?

please reply with scriptures from Bible ?
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Hi all

I am little confused if Alchohol,Pork,Homosex are clearly forbiden , if YES, then why then why most of Christians did not follow their Bible , by eat pork,drink alchohol, and agree with homosexual ?

please reply with scriptures from Bible ?
1. Alcohol = definitely OK for fun and sustenance.
2. "homosex" = not OK according to multiple Biblical authors.
3. Pork = debatable. If NT overrules OT, then arguably OK. If OT still stands as absolute law, then not OK (very few Christians take this view).

That being said, the Bible is a collection of books, chosen from many other rejects, written by unknown authors thousands of years ago. And, mainly all evidence points to them telling the stories third hand (hearsay). Further, it is not difficult to look at the book with this knowledge realistically and still get the beautiful, useful, and,imho, divine spirit which exists underneath. It's taken me decades to feel at all comfortable with the text, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that most Christians don't take it word for word.
 

Thana

Lady
I have opinions on this subject.
But I am not allowed to respond in this forum because I am not quite Catholic enough.
Tom

Being raised Catholic doesn't gain you any points.
You either are or you aren't, I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
You either are or you aren't,
Not really.
I have all the credentials. I could join the local RCC Church in 10 minutes at the parish office. Several current members want me to.

RF standards aren't even as stringent as theirs. If I announced that I was now a Catholic Christian, who could contradict me, and on what grounds?
Tom
 

Thana

Lady
Not really.
I have all the credentials. I could join the local RCC Church in 10 minutes at the parish office. Several current members want me to.

RF standards aren't even as stringent as theirs. If I announced that I was now a Catholic Christian, who could contradict me, and on what grounds?
Tom

But you don't have belief.
And isn't that the defining factor?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
But you don't have belief.
And isn't that the defining factor?

I have lots of beliefs. Many of them are very much in synch with the majority of Catholics. Fewer than you might think get all theological under normal circumstances. You don't get to nearly a billion members by sweating the small stuff.

Like most religious organizations of size there are really three components. Actions, theology, and community. Two out of three isn't bad.
There really is no objective definition of Christian. It is whatever someone thinks it is.
Tom
 

Thana

Lady
I have lots of beliefs. Many of them are very much in synch with the majority of Catholics. Fewer than you might think get all theological under normal circumstances. You don't get to nearly a billion members by sweating the small stuff.

Like most religious organizations of size there are really three components. Actions, theology, and community. Two out of three isn't bad.
There really is no objective definition of Christian. It is whatever someone thinks it is.
Tom

And yet if I asked if you considered yourself a Christian you'd say no. Because you know you're not.

Sure, you don't have to sweat the small stuff. But you can't just forgo the fundamental things like, you know, a belief in God. Or at the very least, belief in any of the interpretations of the bible.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
And yet if I asked if you considered yourself a Christian you'd say no. Because you know you're not.

Depends on the context. I might very well under certain circumstances. I have a lot of very nuanced views about things.
And I have been "accused" of being a closet Christian by people before. There are many different meanings and understandings of the term.

Normally I won't, out of respect for people's feelings and a wish to avoid pointless confusion. I often just point out that charity and Christianity are two different things.
Tom
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Sure, you don't have to sweat the small stuff. But you can't just forgo the fundamental things like, you know, a belief in God. Or at the very least, belief in any of the interpretations of the bible.

I do believe in God, sort of. Most Abrahamic folks wouldn't consider my image to qualify as a god, that's why I usually self identify as atheist. Diest is more accurate, but most people don't know what I mean.

But no, I don't think most Christian folk are nearly as concerned about theology as they are behavior and community. The high muckety mucks get their knickers in a twist over it, but most people do not.
Tom
 

Thana

Lady
Depends on the context. I might very well under certain circumstances. I have a lot of very nuanced views about things.
And I have been "accused" of being a closet Christian by people before. There are many different meanings and understandings of the term.

Normally I won't, out of respect for people's feelings and a wish to avoid pointless confusion. I often just point out that charity and Christianity are two different things.
Tom

That's a lot of words for no.

I do believe in God, sort of. Most Abrahamic folks wouldn't consider my image to qualify as a god, that's why I usually self identify as atheist. Diest is more accurate, but most people don't know what I mean.

But no, I don't think most Christian folk are nearly as concerned about theology as they are behavior and community. The high muckety mucks get their knickers in a twist over it, but most people do not.
Tom

Deism isn't Theism, And I think Christians do care enough otherwise I'm sure they wouldn't bother with the label. But they take it on, along with it's negative connotations, because that is what they are.
 

Sundance

pursuing the Divine Beloved
Premium Member
That's why I don't drink or smoke, I'm not gay, nor do I eat pork (at least, I'm slowly learning to abstain).
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Hi all

I am little confused if Alchohol,Pork,Homosex are clearly forbiden , if YES, then why then why most of Christians did not follow their Bible , by eat pork,drink alchohol, and agree with homosexual ?

please reply with scriptures from Bible ?
Hi! One should note that the consumption of alcohol is never forbidden in the Bible, except for one who takes a nazirite vow, but even this vow is only for a limited time. There are plenty of instances in the Bible where wine is drank. In fact, Jesus's first miracle is to turn water into wine for a wedding feast. We read in the Gospel of John, chapter 2:

3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 [And] Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. 7 Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim. 8 Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it. 9 And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

From Psalm 104, the Psalmist praises God for creating and sustaining the earth. In one section it is written:

You make the grass grow for the cattle
and plants for people’s work
to bring forth food from the earth,
15 wine to gladden their hearts,
oil to make their faces shine,
and bread to sustain the human heart.

So indeed, God Himself has given us alcohol--not to get drunk (which is forbidden in no uncertain terms throughout the Bible), but rather that we can enjoy ourselves and relax once in a while.

As for pork, when the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles, the Church, led by the disciples of Jesus, decided that eating pork was allowed for the Gentiles. The Church only decreed these four things in Acts 15:28: ‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, 29 namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”

Most Christians do not agree with homosexual acts. It is against the teachings of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches, which combined make up roughly 75% of Christians. Throw in conservative Protestants who also forbid homosexual acts, and that number probably rises to somewhere around 85-90%.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Hi! One should note that the consumption of alcohol is never forbidden in the Bible, except for one who takes a nazirite vow, but even this vow is only for a limited time. There are plenty of instances in the Bible where wine is drank. In fact, Jesus's first miracle is to turn water into wine for a wedding feast. We read in the Gospel of John, chapter 2:

3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 [And] Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. 7 Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim. 8 Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it. 9 And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

From Psalm 104, the Psalmist praises God for creating and sustaining the earth. In one section it is written:

You make the grass grow for the cattle
and plants for people’s work
to bring forth food from the earth,
15 wine to gladden their hearts,
oil to make their faces shine,
and bread to sustain the human heart.

So indeed, God Himself has given us alcohol--not to get drunk (which is forbidden in no uncertain terms throughout the Bible), but rather that we can enjoy ourselves and relax once in a while.

As for pork, when the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles, the Church, led by the disciples of Jesus, decided that eating pork was allowed for the Gentiles. The Church only decreed these four things in Acts 15:28: ‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, 29 namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”

Most Christians do not agree with homosexual acts. It is against the teachings of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches, which combined make up roughly 75% of Christians. Throw in conservative Protestants who also forbid homosexual acts, and that number probably rises to somewhere around 85-90%.
thanks for this value clarifcation .

obviously the Bible forbid the homosex acts .

so I am curious whom (the Christians) allow homosexual ,..... which Scripture in Bible, they used to justify their opinion ?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
1. Alcohol = definitely OK for fun and sustenance.
2. "homosex" = not OK according to multiple Biblical authors.
3. Pork = debatable. If NT overrules OT, then arguably OK. If OT still stands as absolute law, then not OK (very few Christians take this view).

That being said, the Bible is a collection of books, chosen from many other rejects, written by unknown authors thousands of years ago. And, mainly all evidence points to them telling the stories third hand (hearsay). Further, it is not difficult to look at the book with this knowledge realistically and still get the beautiful, useful, and,imho, divine spirit which exists underneath. It's taken me decades to feel at all comfortable with the text, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that most Christians don't take it word for word.
as i understand , the Christians may believe that Jesus (pbuh) comes with new laws from God which different that Torah (OT), so He allow wine and eat pork what was forbidden.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Only (in the NT) if you attribute unto Paul divinely-inspired inerrancy, which I don't. As for the OT; I don't put old wine into new wineskins.
But then again I am a heretic, but from my experience a lot of mainstream Christians agree with me on these points. At-least here in Europe.
None of this goes against my claim. Whether you believe Paul had authority to express the will of God (which I don't), he was still a biblical author. Along with all of the mentions of homosexuality in the OT, there are "multiple biblical authors" that say that homosexuality is not OK.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
as i understand , the Christians may believe that Jesus (pbuh) comes with new laws from God which different that Torah (OT), so He allow wine and eat pork what was forbidden.
Wine was not forbidden in the OT. Where did you get that from?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Wine was not forbidden in the OT. Where did you get that from?
thanks for correct my info , i though it's forbidden in OT .

i checked , i find Torah is against to be very drunk , NOT against drinking .

the update is happened just in pork , i guess .
 
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