Doubt regarding Atheism or Theism

[sandandfoam]

I was looking at threads this morning and it seems to me that some atheists and some theists seem to be completely certain that their theism/atheism is the 100 % correct perspective.
This raises a couple of questions for me:-
1. Is anyone really so certain that they don't question themselves or experience doubt ?
2. If someone is 100 % certain regarding their perspective/faith/or lack of - what is the motivation to discuss or debate their views ?

 

[BucephalusBB]

1. I am so certain that I need not to question myself, only my questions..
2. In my 100% sureness I am 100% sure that whatever I think it's most likelly wrong.

My motivation for discussion or debating is getting the right questions.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Certainty is foolish.

 

[PureX]

I think the kind of assuredness that you're talking about is basically just blind bravado. It's a cover-up behavior that people use to avoid accepting their own doubts.

Most human beings fear and dread what I'd call a 'paradigm collapse'. That is the experience of having one's world-view turned upside down by having it exposed as wrong, or false, or inaccurate. It's a life-changing event, and it usually takes years to recover from. Most of us will avoid it if at all possible, even at the expense of truth or honesty. So I try not to be too hard on people I meet who are living in this deep fear of such a catastrophic life event because I know that they probably are nearer to such an experience that I am at the moment. And as a result, they're fighting tooth and nail to hold their accepted world-view together. And I understand that in this effort to hold themselves together, they might insult or otherwise act badly toward me and others. But I see it as something akin to swimming near someone who is floundering in the water. You must be careful of them, but they aren't intentionally trying to drown you.

 

[Sunstone]

Certainty is foolish.

I find myself in agreement.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I was looking at threads this morning and it seems to me that some atheists and some theists seem to be completely certain that their theism/atheism is the 100 % correct perspective.
This raises a couple of questions for me:-
1. Is anyone really so certain that they don't question themselves or experience doubt ?
2. If someone is 100 % certain regarding their perspective/faith/or lack of - what is the motivation to discuss or debate their views ?

One could argue that nothing can be known 100% but that seems like a cop out to me. Debate can be interesting and educational. The questions bring us all together. I think its good to discuss and debate even if we don't find any real answers.

 

[Fluffy]

1) Yes people are sufficiently certain to not experience doubt. I think we all experience this through lacking the necessary concepts to formulate the questions that allow for doubt. For example, I have posted before on here how I never questioned my theism because I had never before thought about what caused my beliefs. Upon encountering this concept of belief causation, I was able to doubt something that, beforehand, I had always accepted unquestioningly.

2) I can only guess that if one is sufficiently certain of their position then it can fuel the desire to point out perceived mistakes in alternate argumentation.

 

[snakeblood08]

I was looking at threads this morning and it seems to me that some atheists and some theists seem to be completely certain that their theism/atheism is the 100 % correct perspective.
This raises a couple of questions for me:-
1. Is anyone really so certain that they don't question themselves or experience doubt ?
2. If someone is 100 % certain regarding their perspective/faith/or lack of - what is the motivation to discuss or debate their views ?

1. I think it foolish for anyone to be so entirely staunch in their convictions that they refuse to even entertain the possibility that they may be wrong; and I myself have, and continue to question my beliefs everyday. And in light of new information, my beliefs change over time.
For instance, during the last three months, I've been an Atheist, then an Agnostic, then even an Intelligent Design advocate (for crying out loud!); at present I've again returned to Atheism.
It's healthy to experience doubt when it comes to any belief system you have- keeps you from getting too close-minded and stubborn .

2. Well I can't speak for everyone who feels motivated to debate and discuss their worldviews. I suppose an evangelical's motivation to discuss their beliefs might stem from the fact that they have a divine obligation to preach the Good News and convert people.
I know, for me, it's because I enjoy hearing different people's perspectives on different issues.

Plus, you guys seem pretty cool.

 

[Sunstone]

Is anyone really so certain that they don't question themselves or experience doubt ?

A complete lack of doubt seems to me pathological.

 

[.lava]

Certainty is foolish.

is that certain?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Imagine the joy of being right. To have have had unwavering faith and finally KNOW instead of just BELIEVE. That would be a joyous day indeed, if you are a Christian.

No matter who is wrong and who is right, (someone has to be right), the atheist will never know they are right about this issue.

 

[Random]

But say I believe in Yahweh God because I have experienced what that means and understood it, therefore my belief is rational, and born of reason. Is it wrong to be certain in this circumstance? No, I don't think so. For me, doubt @ this stage would be absurd self-denial.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But say I believe in Yahweh God because I have experienced what that means and understood it, therefore my belief is rational, and born of reason. Is it wrong to be certain in this circumstance? No, I don't think so. For me, doubt @ this stage would be absurd self-denial.

On the contrary. We are an easily deluded species and the absence of doubt would be absurd deceit.

 

[Willamena]

But say I believe in Yahweh God because I have experienced what that means and understood it, therefore my belief is rational, and born of reason. Is it wrong to be certain in this circumstance? No, I don't think so. For me, doubt @ this stage would be absurd self-denial.

My response, yes and no, because there is no inherent "right" or "wrong" in being immersed in an idea, like certainty. When and if the idea is revealed as "only" or "just" idea (i.e. so-called illusion or dream), that is when uncertainty is borne, and that spawns the illusion that there is "something wrong".

 

[Fluffy]

Imagine the joy of being right. To have have had unwavering faith and finally KNOW instead of just BELIEVE. That would be a joyous day indeed, if you are a Christian.

No mater who is wrong and who is right, (someone has to be right), the atheist will never know they are right about this issue.

There are two kinds of knowledge: psychological and epistemic. The kind which the Christian could achieve but the atheist will never is epistemic. The kind that produces the joy which you describe and is also available to anybody is psychological.

 

[Random]

On the contrary. We are an easily deluded species and the absence of doubt would be absurd deceit.

No, I don't believe that.

 

[Random]

My response, yes and no, because there is no inherent "right" or "wrong" in being immersed in an idea, like certainty. When and if the idea is revealed as "only" or "just" idea (i.e. so-called illusion or dream), that is when uncertainty is borne, and that spawns the illusion that there is "something wrong".

Like Jay, I feel this kind of talk is born of cynicism about personal revelation and like him you are too quick to attack the confidence and self-belief of another using glittery terms like "delusion" and "illusion". What it ammounts to is that I have come to KNOW MYSELF. Is the certainty of this a matter for someone other than myself to judge?

 

[Fluffy]

Like Jay, I feel this kind of talk is born of cynicism about personal revelation and like him you are too quick to attack the confidence and self-belief of another using glittery terms like "delusion" and "illusion". What it ammounts to is that I have come to KNOW MYSELF. Is the certainty of this a matter for someone other than myself to judge?

There is a distinction between psychological and epistemic knowledge. Epistemic knowledge is such that we can quantitatively measure the degree to which it is connected with reality. Psychological knowledge requires no epistemic value but is simply a description of the disposition of a person towards a belief.

However, we can always ask the question of how we can distinguish between epistemic and psychological certainty and, if we cannot, how anybody can claim to have either. It goes much deeper than illusion and delusion. It is necessary to be able to discern them even when not experiencing illusion or delusion.

 

[whereismynotecard]

Well... I cannot say that I am 100% sure that I am right, but I am really quite certain... And as for motivation for debating: A lot of people debate to try to convince everyone else that they are right, and I do not really like debating that much, and try to refrain from doing it very often.

 

[whereismynotecard]

Imagine the joy of being right. To have have had unwavering faith and finally KNOW instead of just BELIEVE. That would be a joyous day indeed, if you are a Christian.

No mater who is wrong and who is right, (someone has to be right), the atheist will never know they are right about this issue.

Hmmm... You seem to say things like that a lot... According to my beliefs no one else will ever know if they are right either... If there is no god, when a christain dies, their body decays, just like everyone else, and they will never know that they were wrong, because they will be dead.