Does the Quran promote peaceful values? (I claim it does not.)

[icehorse]

I agree, if the advice given is nonsensical, destructive or in conflict with the lives of other people... however, in the case of Islam - look around you - Muslims "co-exist peacefully" all over the world... it is only in war torn regions where we see conflict - but hey, that's a no brainer. Any war torn country sees conflict - it's not an issue of religion, but an issue of politics and governorship... in the case of the middle east - the media and agenda makers have all too obviously shifted the focus to Islam instead of the issues that need to be focused on. Due to the media lies etc, I see many westerners adopt the MSM POV which, truth be told, is very much like that glass of milk with a drop of poison in it... looks like milk, tastes like milk - but it isn't milk...

...The advice given in Sunnah and Quran, are not foolish - they are the absolute opposite - they are beneficial to humanity.

Do not seek discord bro Ice - seek to understand with love for a better world.

Scimi

Hi Scimitar,

Let me make a distinction here. I ABSOLUTELY agree that we should learn from history's best minds and teachers. But NONE of them should be viewed as perfect or beyond reproach. This is the distinction!

If you tell me that there are some wonderful teachings in Islamic scripture, I'm sure you're correct.

It's when I'm told that the entire scripture is perfect, beyond reproach, and I must swallow it all, that I take strong exception.

So, can I learn from a good book? Yes!
Must I be forced to swallow it whole? Ya' gotta be joking.

 

[outhouse]

Must I be forced to swallow it whole? Ya' gotta be joking.

And that is a huge problem

They are all required to be literalist to the whole book as gods word

 

[Scimitar]

Hi Scimitar,

Let me make a distinction here. I ABSOLUTELY agree that we should learn from history's best minds and teachers. But NONE of them should be viewed as perfect or beyond reproach. This is the distinction!

If you tell me that there are some wonderful teachings in Islamic scripture, I'm sure you're correct.

It's when I'm told that the entire scripture is perfect, beyond reproach, and I must swallow it all, that I take strong exception.

So, can I learn from a good book? Yes!
Must I be forced to swallow it whole? Ya' gotta be joking.

If you "choose" to read a book, you can also "choose" whether you will "swallow it whole" or "not" - no one is forcing you, brother Ice.

I've already claimed that the scripture is perfect, but please - do NOT take my word for it - investigate it with method, scholarly approach - in context, with consideration, and remember - there is "no compulsion in religion" - the book itself is telling you "you don't have to swallow it whole" - surely you can't get fairer than that?

For the record bro Ice - i've not once told you that you must swallow it whole - or anything to that effect. All I've constantly re-iterated is that any ancient book must be studied carefully, with consideration, in context, following sound method. That is all.

God bless,

Scimi

 

[icehorse]

Hey Scimitar,

I have no reason to doubt that you've never said that. But I've been told by several Muslims that you are not allowed to "cherry pick" out of the Quran and only follow those verses you choose.

Is that wrong? Can I cherry pick?

 

[Scimitar]

Shouldnt you really ask "is it sound method to cherry pick verses out of their contexts?"

Anyone (not just Muslims) will tell you "no".

Scimi

 

[icehorse]

Shouldnt you really ask "is it sound method to cherry pick verses out of their contexts?"

Anyone (not just Muslims) will tell you "no".

Scimi

Of course 1400 years of history shows us that not even Muslims can agree on what "context" they should create to understand the book.

I think I've demonstrated that applying Occam's razor to the book leads to conclusions that you disagree with.

 

[Scimitar]

No, you haven't unfortunately - you see, you need to convince me, not yourself - via badly thought out confirmation bias.

Scimi

 

[YmirGF]

If you "choose" to read a book, you can also "choose" whether you will "swallow it whole" or "not" - no one is forcing you, brother Ice.

I've already claimed that the scripture is perfect, but please - do NOT take my word for it - investigate it with method, scholarly approach - in context, with consideration, and remember - there is "no compulsion in religion" - the book itself is telling you "you don't have to swallow it whole" - surely you can't get fairer than that?

For the record bro Ice - i've not once told you that you must swallow it whole - or anything to that effect. All I've constantly re-iterated is that any ancient book must be studied carefully, with consideration, in context, following sound method. That is all.

God bless,

Scimi

Hey Scimitar,

I have no reason to doubt that you've never said that. But I've been told by several Muslims that you are not allowed to "cherry pick" out of the Quran and only follow those verses you choose.

Is that wrong? Can I cherry pick?

Shouldnt you really ask "is it sound method to cherry pick verses out of their contexts?"

Anyone (not just Muslims) will tell you "no".

Scimi

And yet, you feel free the cherry pick a line from the Qur'an that seemingly supports your assertion. Thought you shouldn't do that? Or is it only negative cherry-picking?

 

[Scimitar]

Any assertions. I posted the verse to prove in clear terms and in context that there is no compulsion in religion.

Cherry picking ... what a term lol.

It doesnt apply to one who studies the contexts and places the verses in those requires contexts... it only applies to one whom uses a verse to push it out of ifs context.

It would help if you knew the difference.

God bless.

Scimi

 

[icehorse]

Scimitar,

It strikes me that you're making an unfalsifiable claim here. In effect you're saying that you have the magic formula for interpreting the Quran. That somehow you're analysis is the correct analysis. Can you provide evidence for this (implicit) claim of yours?

 

[Scimitar]

Yes. But you'd have to meet me in person. Website forums dont do much for people hiding behind pseudyms.

Scimitar

 

[YmirGF]

Any assertions. I posted the verse to prove in clear terms and in context that there is no compulsion in religion.

Cherry picking ... what a term lol.

It doesnt apply to one who studies the contexts and places the verses in those requires contexts... it only applies to one whom uses a verse to push it out of ifs context.

It would help if you knew the difference.

Well, it's not like Muhammad was given any real choice during his little chinwag with Gabriel. If we are to believe the story, Gabriel wasn't exactly kind and considerate to Muhammad, but rather, forced him to "Read/Recite".

So much for "no compulsion in religion" and that coming from a religion that began with compulsion. Evidently, there is compulsion for some, but not for others.

Admittedly, "No compulsion in religion" looks nice on the marketing brochures. Pity it's not accurate.

 

[Scimitar]

You're makinh mince meat out of contextual understanding. Sheesh. Hmmm. You need to know that Muhammad had ni choice in being a prophet and messenger... he met gabriel - AN ANGEL - dont you think the idea of compulsion takes a back seat once conviction enters the heart? Muhammad had experienced something Godly.... and you applying the compulsion idiocy here is only serving to show me how you cannot digest imformation.

Scimi

 

[YmirGF]

Yes. But you'd have to meet me in person in order for me to prove that.... forums dont do much for those of us who sign up under pseudonyms.

Scimi

What?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Yes. But you'd have to meet me in person. Website forums dont do much for people hiding behind pseudyms.

Scimitar

Do you think that in the Forum talk is that the books of Islam and the Qur'an
When Muhammad married Zaynab Bint jahsh beautiful
Do this outside of the Qur'an
God said to Muhammad married ya Muhammad
What do you want to tell in the dark
Do you want to say no Mohammed did not marry sexually motivated is married to mercy
Words of the void
Not be able to defend Muhammad only if you are able to cancel this verse
And also what do you say about a lie
It was in doubt that Aisha Mohammed with Safwan betrayed
Muhammad did not approach them, even the famous verse came with Aisha's innocence instrument of God of Muhammad
Come and spoke in short, my friend, the distinguished
​

 

[Scimitar]

when you make some sense, I will respond, but I really have no idea exactly what point(s) you are trying to raise - you NEED to learn English - properly if you are to engage here - we have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.

Scimi

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Yes. But you'd have to meet me in person. Website forums dont do much for people hiding behind pseudyms.

Scimitar

I understood your words--and this was my answer to you
What you want to say
About Islam
In bilateral dialogue outside the Forum
You say Islam is not this speech written
It's nonsense-the
Well
Do you think the novel marriage of Zaynab Bint jahsh
Are our authorship
Is a novel and verse of the Qur'an
The explanation in the following form
Zayd bin Harith
Ghulam Ali Usman and his son in adoption
He married a beautiful woman named n Zainab Bint jahsh
And when he saw Mohammed at the door of the Tabernacle in his heart
This taken from Zed and married her without a contract and the most skilled and friendly
If tsadni and not understand my words refer to Quran
Reading the verse to us until the kernels of knowledge and great knowledge about Islam
​

 

[Scimitar]

I dont understand what you are saying man. sorry but your english translation is very bad.

 

[icehorse]

In the theaters on Broadway, in New York city there has been a long running satirical musical called "The Book of Mormon". This musical is extremely irreverent. If you're a Mormon with a thin skin, you are apt to be extremely offended by this play. But the play goes on, it's been running for years now. (I don't think anyone's been dubbed "Mormanophobic".)

The common, informal agreement "in the streets" is that if such an offensive musical was made entitled "The Quran", violence would ensue. Death threats would be issued, cries of "Islamophobia" would ring far and wide. We can't prove it, but most people believe it. Why? We have mountains of evidence.

Is this an example of how the Quran promotes peaceful values?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Islamic intellectualterrorismbecauseour presence on theInternet
It's unlikely people talk this way with a Muslim
For a Muslim to take various means of violence
Because he is unable to respond