This thread is a continuation of a thread in the "Comparative Religion" forum entitled; "What are the values of moderate Muslims?".
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/159410-what-values-moderate-muslims.html
To summarize (and I hope not oversimplify), as a western secularist my reading of the Quran is that it does NOT promote modern, peaceful values such as:
- freedom of religion and freedom from religion (e.g. no penalty for apostasy)
- separation of church and state (e.g. the opposite of Sharia)
- equality for all (e.g. women's rights, gay rights...)
- freedom of speech (e.g. the freedom to openly criticize anything)
- respect for other belief systems
- respect for non-Muslims and non-Muslim countries
My second claim is that if a Muslim holds modern, peaceful values, those values didn't come from the scripture, and that the scripture must be massively edited and cherry-picked to support peaceful values.
When I have cited certain verses from the Quran to support my claims, I have been told that I'm not interpreting the verses correctly. Several members have said that if I (we?) will cite verses that seem to be in conflict with the above list, they will explain the true context.
I will list some verses here, but it seems others should be able to as well.
== Allah created non-believers so they can burn in hell
2:6-7
4:56
22:19-22
40:70-72
56:93-94
and many others...
== non-believers are not to be trusted or befriended
2:65-66 - Jews are apes to be despised
2:121 - they are losers
2:191-193 - kill them
2:221 - no intermarriage
3:73 - do not believe them
3:118 - do not befriend, they hate you
4:101 - they are enemies
9:107 - they are liars
33:48 - they are hypocrites
58:14-15 - they are hypocrites and liars
and many others...
That seems like a good start. The verses I listed are only a small fraction of the verses in the Quran that read as though the Quran does NOT have a peaceful message.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/159410-what-values-moderate-muslims.html
To summarize (and I hope not oversimplify), as a western secularist my reading of the Quran is that it does NOT promote modern, peaceful values such as:
- freedom of religion and freedom from religion (e.g. no penalty for apostasy)
- separation of church and state (e.g. the opposite of Sharia)
- equality for all (e.g. women's rights, gay rights...)
- freedom of speech (e.g. the freedom to openly criticize anything)
- respect for other belief systems
- respect for non-Muslims and non-Muslim countries
My second claim is that if a Muslim holds modern, peaceful values, those values didn't come from the scripture, and that the scripture must be massively edited and cherry-picked to support peaceful values.
When I have cited certain verses from the Quran to support my claims, I have been told that I'm not interpreting the verses correctly. Several members have said that if I (we?) will cite verses that seem to be in conflict with the above list, they will explain the true context.
I will list some verses here, but it seems others should be able to as well.
== Allah created non-believers so they can burn in hell
2:6-7
4:56
22:19-22
40:70-72
56:93-94
and many others...
== non-believers are not to be trusted or befriended
2:65-66 - Jews are apes to be despised
2:121 - they are losers
2:191-193 - kill them
2:221 - no intermarriage
3:73 - do not believe them
3:118 - do not befriend, they hate you
4:101 - they are enemies
9:107 - they are liars
33:48 - they are hypocrites
58:14-15 - they are hypocrites and liars
and many others...
That seems like a good start. The verses I listed are only a small fraction of the verses in the Quran that read as though the Quran does NOT have a peaceful message.