Does the Quran promote peaceful values? (I claim it does not.)

[vskipper]

But Marx is the owner of an economic ideology
Did not call for fight
Who took to the imposition of Bolshevism is Lenin
The economic theory of Karl Marx have a significant effect
It is possible that the effects are still to this day
It calls for the division of wealth and social parasite
While
Mohammed and Islam profess and allow the division of the spoils
Do you know that Islam allows booty that come from the wars of the Muslims
One reason for the defeat of the Muslims in one of the attacks are the spoils
And Islam says that the booty is not just stuff, but women also spoils
Read the history of invasions

My knowledge of Marx is, admittedly, minimal. So, I will not comment on that part. However, on the spoils of war part...have you never read the book of Jacob? Have you never read how the Israelites burned men, women, & children alive? How the spoils were divided?

 

[icehorse]

@icehorse ...

weren't you on Gawaher for the longest? I was un abdullahfath there

Yes, now I remember you. But Gawaher seemed small and not very interesting compared to RF.

 

[vskipper]

Touche.

 

[icehorse]

Not a criticism of Gawaker, I just find RF to be more what I was looking for.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Hitler was known for multiple formilitary blunders. Hitler believed he was a messiah of sorts snd even claimed thstthe burning of jews was a frangrance for God.

Muhammad never died in battle. I am not presently an advocate for Islam but facts are facts

Excuse me
I did not Read This position of Hitler
According to my knowledge
Hitler was a nationalist only
It was believed that the Germanic element is the purest in the world
He wrote a book, Mein Kampf
And either the Holocaust
I think the reason is its cooperation with Muslims Ahaddalvgahae
This fact is known from the net
And where many pictures and meeting between him and Hitler
That was the Arabs of supporters to Hitler in the act
With all that, unfortunately forgotten the name of the Muslim al-Faqih

 

[mahmoud mrt]

There is a debate a in another thread where I replied that have relation to this thread so I decided to post the link here, the replies has clarification to some posts here about some holy Quran Verses and Traditions, And their Relation to war and peace, so there is no need to repeat them.


The topic of the thread was about Israel, but eventually it turned to be a scriptural debate:


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3907691-post71.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3907697-post72.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3907697-post73.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3907697-post74.html

Regards
Mahmoud

 

[mahmoud mrt]

Thanks icehorse,
Sorry I did not come to the forum the last two weeks, and when I came back this week I was engaged with a hot debate about Israel.
Well lets reply, thanks again

Hi Mahmoud,

Freedom of expression: Tyrants like Marx and Hitler shut down free speech. For the most part, they allowed ONLY their messages to get out. People who openly disagreed with them were usually in a LOT of trouble. Those tyrants would have had more trouble coming to power and holding on to their power if the people had really had free speech.

They first came to power by the freedom of speech the formal government gave them, so they climbed on democracy to reach power then they shut down free speech.

Here's just one way to look at the issue of free speech: It's not just about letting speakers say what ever they want. It's also about the person listening. Freedom of expression means that I am allowed to listen to anything I want. This is a critical freedom. There is no one I trust to tell me what I shouldn't be able to listen to. How about you, would you trust me to tell you what you could hear and what you couldn't hear? Probably not. Well then who would you trust? Man, if I was you, I can't think of anyone I would trust. That's just too much power for one human being to have over another. .

Good point, well this deserves thinking, the fine line between freedom of speech and oppression.
This fine line is debatable and has many points of views,
I respect your point of view, thanks

The Western Goal: I suspect I'm going to disagree with your idea here, but I'm not quite sure I understand it. You're saying something about how the West supporting Israel causes Muslims in other parts of the world to fight with each other? Is that right? That doesn't sound right, can you say more about what you mean?

Thanks!

Yes I mean That, lets look at the [FONT=&quot]terrorists groups:
[/FONT]
The Western Intelligence agencies have their hands dirty with Muslims and non-Muslims blood by supporting first in the 1980th the extreme groups in Afghanistan when they were fighting Russia, then by giving refuge to many extreme groups in their countries like the Ekhwan Moslemon group in the name of freedom of speech and political refuge.

ISIS in Syria and Iraq are founded and funded by Western Intelligence Agencies for the Goal of erasing Basshar Alasad Rule for the sake of clearing an enemy of Israel, and also for the sake of keeping Muslims fighting each other and leave Israel alone.

Regards
Mahmoud

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Thanks icehorse,
Sorry I did not come to the forum the last two weeks, and when I came back this week I was engaged with a hot debate about Israel.
Well lets reply, thanks again

They first came to power by the freedom of speech the formal government gave them, so they climbed on democracy to reach power then they shut down free speech.

Good point, well this deserves thinking, the fine line between freedom of speech and oppression.
This fine line is debatable and has many points of views,
I respect your point of view, thanks


Yes I mean That, lets look at the [FONT=&quot]terrorists groups:
[/FONT]
The Western Intelligence agencies have their hands dirty with Muslims and non-Muslims blood by supporting first in the 1980th the extreme groups in Afghanistan when they were fighting Russia, then by giving refuge to many extreme groups in their countries like the Ekhwan Moslemon group in the name of freedom of speech and political refuge.

ISIS in Syria and Iraq are founded and funded by Western Intelligence Agencies for the Goal of erasing Basshar Alasad Rule for the sake of clearing an enemy of Israel, and also for the sake of keeping Muslims fighting each other and leave Israel alone.

Regards
Mahmoud

Does Islam believe in democracy
Islam does not believe Baledmqratih
And also there are no freedom of expression in Islam
And the evidence of many
Apostate
From the teachings of Islam
No freedom of expression
In light of the killing of Islam Ertdan
In this forum
Muslims trying to suppress freedom of expression also
Under the pretext of insulting Islam
With but we write is written from Muslims
Another example of this
Ajuzakberh killed in the Age
It was released Mnmamed
This information is written from Muslims
Muslim refuses to publish such information, even in the countries of the West
Freedom of speech means that you say what you believe
Does this exist in any Muslim country

 

[mahmoud mrt]

Does Islam believe in democracy
Islam does not believe Baledmqratih
And also there are no freedom of expression in Islam
And the evidence of many
Apostate
From the teachings of Islam
No freedom of expression
In light of the killing of Islam Ertdan
In this forum
Muslims trying to suppress freedom of expression also
Under the pretext of insulting Islam
With but we write is written from Muslims
Another example of this
Ajuzakberh killed in the Age
It was released Mnmamed
This information is written from Muslims
Muslim refuses to publish such information, even in the countries of the West
Freedom of speech means that you say what you believe
Does this exist in any Muslim country

Mahasn, I encourage you to put some effort in your posts and organize them better.

I more encourage you to look at authentic sources.

I cannot reply to posts disorganized like this, no offense at all.

Regards,
Mahmoud

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Mahasn, I encourage you to put some effort in your posts and organize them better.

I more encourage you to look at authentic sources.

I cannot reply to posts disorganized like this, no offense at all.
The best source is the Koran
This is the faith of Muslims
And also what store it in my memory of the books studied
* And to present my Aagdaa
Vicl and conditions
Koran is the main source of
In the issue of democracy
If you know the kinds of political systems
There are three stages
The first, which is that the governor considers himself a god
This was the era with Alslalaat first in ur
The ancient civilizations
The second phase
* Namely, that the governor considers himself a deputy of God
This was his debut with the evolution of Hammurabi
The world continues to Faihkumath models
That was the call from Plato and Aristotle is the last of Governments
It is the third phase of the evolution of political systems
It is also from the teachings of Christianity
When it came to Islam
He did not know the system difficult to rule
Only known system of prosecution for God
That Muhammad was a deputy of God in judgment
And verses of the Koran in this direction
Even Jihad in Islam is jihad on behalf of
Because the Koran the word of God hard
* Can not go out with him
The rule of the people because the system itself is not written in the book of God
So that can not be exercised in the political life of the Islamic
The verse that spoke about the system of government is] advice and succession
And go ahead in the matter
The pattern of succession to the succession to his brother Aaron, Moses
There was a brilliant Islamic democratic system, that system does not apply fully to Islam
I think I made ​​you a summary
As a result, the study
And also I could Sources of support from other
But here's what I believe type
I am not only a full-time
Van you want to search in my words
I could go with you in this direction
With all due respect

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

We are in the twenty-century atheist
All the writings of Muslim jurists and all the aspirations of Muslim thinkers
Open-minded and those who believe in Islam in its original version
Dreaming of the return of the Islamic Caliphate
The Islamic Caliphate means that the ruling is the one who represents the will of the Prophet, which is on equal terms with the will of God
The Koranic verses
Clear
Obey Allah and the Prophet
And that you want to search in the verses are many
Believe it emphasizes deductive
It is possible that you continued to prove
This conclusion is the Koran
And also tell you
* That Muhammad failed to appoint a successor to him for two reasons: The first is that there is a twist happened in the Koran
A Quranic verse
If studied'll know it refers to Ali bin Abi Talib
But with distortion happening to this verse
I understood it differently
Manual author of these words to you and all loving to learn Islam
The fact that the democracy in Islam and why it can not be recognized by faith

 

[Scimitar]

google translate much? it's hard to follow your english, you're better off learning the language first mahasn

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

google translate much? it's hard to follow your english, you're better off learning the language first mahasn

Thank you
Please, tell me
Atypical of my words
I I shall describe you
With pleasure and joy

 

[Scimitar]

no thank you. but I appreciate you offering your help. But I really don't need it.

 

[icehorse]

mahmoud said (in relationship to blasphemy??):

Good point, well this deserves thinking, the fine line between freedom of speech and oppression.

I'm not sure I see this fine line? Are you implying that too much freedom of speech can lead to oppression? Can you elaborate?

 

[Scimitar]

I can, this short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTZEMS_7nDY

the longer one is available if you need it.

Scimi

 

[icehorse]

Hi Scimitar,

This might be a good discussion. First off, even in the countries with the most open freedom of expression laws, there are still laws against hate speech or speech that directly threatens another person with violence. I'm not talking about that sort of speech.

In a nutshell, my stance is "people deserve respect, their ideas do not". Of course that nutshell needs some clarification.

But for example, a cartoonist MUST be able to draw cartoons of any prophet he wants to. And a novelist like Salman Rushdie MUST be able to write any novel that he wants to. Those are examples of criticizing ideas.

If I read Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad (I'm just starting), and decide that Muhammad was not a good person to use as a role model, I MUST be allowed to say that.

I have never met a person or heard of a person smart enough to decide for me what ideas I can and cannot hear.

Who would you allow to make such decisions for you?

 

[Scimitar]

Hi Scimitar,

This might be a good discussion. First off, even in the countries with the most open freedom of expression laws, there are still laws against hate speech or speech that directly threatens another person with violence. I'm not talking about that sort of speech.

In a nutshell, my stance is "people deserve respect, their ideas do not". Of course that nutshell needs some clarification.

Good.

But for example, a cartoonist MUST be able to draw cartoons of any prophet he wants to. And a novelist like Salman Rushdie MUST be able to write any novel that he wants to. Those are examples of criticizing ideas.

It really doesn't bother me that people would make derogatory pictures or write books such as the satanic verses, it may even surprise you to learnt that I have read it...

If I read Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad (I'm just starting), and decide that Muhammad was not a good person to use as a role model, I MUST be allowed to say that.

If you can debate it, effectively - then I will even humour you. If you cannot, then you will be talking to a wall.

I have never met a person or heard of a person smart enough to decide for me what ideas I can and cannot hear.

Not even your own parents? really?

Who would you allow to make such decisions for you?

Those who are better qualified, such as when I am in a Cessna, and ready to jump out at 10,000ft, with a parachute - believe I am listening to the man in charge!

Scimi

 

[icehorse]

Scimitar,

To talk about children and their parents is to obviously change the topic. We're talking about adults here, and I think you know that.

The parachuting example doesn't apply at all. You can't claim that an instructor is the same as a censor. Are you claiming that some people have the authority to be "life instructors" that can impose their will on other adults?

I've never heard of a person I would deem to be qualified to tell me how to run my life. And if you think you've met a person who think is qualified to run your life for you, I think you've made a foolish decision.

 

[Scimitar]

Scimitar,

To talk about children and their parents is to obviously change the topic. We're talking about adults here, and I think you know that.

The parachuting example doesn't apply at all. You can't claim that an instructor is the same as a censor. Are you claiming that some people have the authority to be "life instructors" that can impose their will on other adults?

I've never heard of a person I would deem to be qualified to tell me how to run my life. And if you think you've met a person who think is qualified to run your life for you, I think you've made a foolish decision.

I agree, if the advice given is nonsensical, destructive or in conflict with the lives of other people... however, in the case of Islam - look around you - Muslims "co-exist peacefully" all over the world... it is only in war torn regions where we see conflict - but hey, that's a no brainer. Any war torn country sees conflict - it's not an issue of religion, but an issue of politics and governorship... in the case of the middle east - the media and agenda makers have all too obviously shifted the focus to Islam instead of the issues that need to be focused on. Due to the media lies etc, I see many westerners adopt the MSM POV which, truth be told, is very much like that glass of milk with a drop of poison in it... looks like milk, tastes like milk - but it isn't milk...

...The advice given in Sunnah and Quran, are not foolish - they are the absolute opposite - they are beneficial to humanity.

Do not seek discord bro Ice - seek to understand with love for a better world.

Scimi