Does anyone feel like this is normal or acceptable?

[Revoltingest]

I thought you were looking for a positive example.

I didn't ask for positive relative to a prior Czarist regime.

 

[Stevicus]

I didn't ask for positive relative to a prior Czarist regime.

Why would that make any difference? The point is that the socialist government improved the country, their infrastructure, and their geopolitical standing in the world. It did not make things worse.

If we allow for other factors, such as devastation by war, active hostility from other nations, and the fact that they started out 100 years behind the West, I think they made a rather impressive showing.

I know that you're not impressed. But I actually respect and admire the Russians' capacity for handling adversity. They've gone through some rather horrific periods in their history, far worse than anything we Americans have gone through. That's not because we're "better," but due to a variety of circumstances and factors too numerous to go over in a single post.

 

[Shad]

some examples would include: citizens united, subsidies for massively profitable corporations, zero taxes for large profitable corporations, gutting of the environment for corporate profits, the ability to pay full time workers wages below the poverty level, and so on

Citizens United was not about a corporation (as in profit generating). It started as a case about a non-profit NGO putting out an ad about Hillary in 2008. The case rendered the Campaign Reform Act unconstitutional. The ruling includes unions which fund Dems.

 

[oldbadger]

Huh?

YOU have so much money compared to others!
And you make that my tricky irresponsibility?

Dont aim that meter you have at yourself, its
delicate adjustments will be fried.

As America's Admiral Rickover said,
"If you are not responsible, you are irresponsible."

How much have you given to third world poor???
Ha.

Not a freaking chance it would come within
an order of magnitude of what I have given.

But then, you want them EX-treme capitlaists to
have to pay coz they have more than you!
Not you coz you have more than others!


"dont tax you, dont tax me, tax the man
behind the tree!"

And so, as your argument dwindles, so your rhetorical rant increases.

What a simple way that would be, telling anybody who would vote for a more responsible society within moderate capitalism that they should give their home up and join the soup queue. And you think you can support extreme Capitalism with that?

 

[oldbadger]

But you rage against capitalist your own stereotypes.
Not against "mega materialism".
Get yer story straight, Heathcliff !!!

And yer got that wrong, too!

A masive % of the people in this country support capitalism, but you seem to think that moderate capitalism is a 'commie'.

So I don't rage against capitalist stereotypes, I debate against extremisty capitalism.

It's you who are raging, wanting to 'deal with' the 'feckless' needy. You made the badges, now wear 'em.

 

[oldbadger]

Methinks that those of us who oppose socialism have a
far better understanding of it than those who dream of it.
When I ask for positive examples of it, I hear nought but
tap dancing to evade the question. They only offer their
dream of competent ethical management by noble leaders
in their workers paradise. Humans aren't that way.

OMG! Revoltingest, Professor of Democratic Community Care. Really?

So you want to listen to a retired security trainer/detective about his ideas for a better society? Nah! You would prefer my tap dancing..... and that for only a few secs.

I expect that if the UK investigated money routes to offshore Brit islands that the resulting cash seizures could pay for ALL of our education systems including universities! At present kids from poorer families are faced with a £27,000 uni-bill and then the cost of their subsistence for three years. I would sort that for sure.

You see, Revolting, putting a financial balance in to a country is complex, and you would be snoring loudly within minutes of its commencement, possibly through great age, and very possibly because of disinterest, maybe?

None are greedier than those who demand to take other people's property & income for their own largesse.

None are greedier than careless misers, imo.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, although it would also be nice if the able-bodied workers were also given livable wages and working conditions.

Of course! Yes!
Able-bodied and Able-minded workers should be adequately rewarded. In the UK there is now a minimum wage for every and any worker. But for a person to able to afford a tiny home in a low-cost town (possibly with less work opportunities) they would have to be earning £50,000 pa to obtain a mortgage for the cheapest home. The average wage here is much much less than that.

Free education for all, and affordable homes for all would not be a bad start.

 

[oldbadger]

This statement of (debatable) fact still doesn't address the issue.
But if accepted, capitalism still beats socialism which beats czarism.

The above sent to another....
Do not try to separate socialism and capitalism. Bother operate in capitalist countries.

When we had a National Railway Network it worked. And then we split it up and flogged it off to private ownership at gift prices. And now, because folks can't get to work on time by rail, we're thinking of re-Nationalising it.

See? National control in a Capitalist society is still Capitaism.

 

[Audie]

And so, as your argument dwindles, so your rhetorical rant increases.

What a simple way that would be, telling anybody who would vote for a more responsible society within moderate capitalism that they should give their home up and join the soup queue. And you think you can support extreme Capitalism with that?

Ok, sorry-ah old bean, I was expecting too much
from you, like sticking with the theme here-

That leftist social engineers here want confiscatory
tax is only for those with more than

Certainly not from you to those with less.

Average UK pay is three times the world
average; minimum wage in Venezuela is
five dollars a month.

"Soup line" indeed. Cant you share a
crust of bread at least, without making up
silly things about me to try to change the subject?

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would that make any difference? .

It does.
When I ask anti-capitalists for a better or as good as alternative.
they come up short. You're not providing that alternative, but
rather a comparison between a primitive rural agricultural
peasant economy with a subsequent socialist one.

Ignoring the increased oppression & famine under the USSR,
you're still claiming that it's an improvement, but not that it's an
exemplary economic system. This is not the alternative I ask for.

 

[oldbadger]

Ok, sorry-ah old bean, I was expecting too much
from you, like sticking with the theme here-

That leftist social engineers here want confiscatory
tax is only for those with more than

Certainly not from you to those with less.

Average UK pay is three times the world
average; minimum wage in Venezuela is
five dollars a month.

"Soup line" indeed. Cant you share a
crust of bread at least, without making up
silly things about me to try to change the subject?

More rants.
More disconnected lumps of info.
Apparently no interest in the real heart of the thread.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why would that make any difference? The point is that the socialist government improved the country, their infrastructure, and their geopolitical standing in the world. It did not make things worse.

If we allow for other factors, such as devastation by war, active hostility from other nations, and the fact that they started out 100 years behind the West, I think they made a rather impressive showing.

I know that you're not impressed. But I actually respect and admire the Russians' capacity for handling adversity. They've gone through some rather horrific periods in their history, far worse than anything we Americans have gone through. That's not because we're "better," but due to a variety of circumstances and factors too numerous to go over in a single post.

Yup. Like it or not Lennon took a poor nation of peasants that was lagging very behind in technology, and overthrow a long-established political system and set up Russia, pretty much overnight, to compete with the USA. Whether you want to admit it or not, that is very impressive.

 

[Revoltingest]

And yer got that wrong, too!

A masive % of the people in this country support capitalism, but you seem to think that moderate capitalism is a 'commie'.

So I don't rage against capitalist stereotypes, I debate against extremisty capitalism.

It's you who are raging, wanting to 'deal with' the 'feckless' needy. You made the badges, now wear 'em.

You claimed you're really against extreme materialism, but
you still don't use that term. Instead, it's capitalism in general
you criticize, not even specific policies. This certainly appears
to be racism against capitalism.

It's like someone who continually rails against blacks being
lazy & criminals. If one is against sloth & crime, one should
rail against that, since it stems from all races. So the focus
being solely upon black folks points to hostility towards them.

 

[Revoltingest]

OMG! Revoltingest, Professor of Democratic Community Care. Really?

So you want to listen to a retired security trainer/detective about his ideas for a better society? Nah! You would prefer my tap dancing..... and that for only a few secs.

I expect that if the UK investigated money routes to offshore Brit islands that the resulting cash seizures could pay for ALL of our education systems including universities! At present kids from poorer families are faced with a £27,000 uni-bill and then the cost of their subsistence for three years. I would sort that for sure.

You see, Revolting, putting a financial balance in to a country is complex, and you would be snoring loudly within minutes of its commencement, possibly through great age, and very possibly because of disinterest, maybe?

If you want to demonize capitalism by pointing to suspected crime,
this fails because you don't compare it to crimes occurring under
alternative systems. It's not an argument....it's complaining.
This is why the emergent properties of competing systems must
be compared.

 

[Revoltingest]

The above sent to another....
Do not try to separate socialism and capitalism. Bother operate in capitalist countries.

The 2 systems must be examined separately if one is to evaluate them.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ok, sorry-ah old bean, I was expecting too much
from you, like sticking with the theme here-

That leftist social engineers here want confiscatory
tax is only for those with more than

Certainly not from you to those with less.

Average UK pay is three times the world
average; minimum wage in Venezuela is
five dollars a month.

"Soup line" indeed. Cant you share a
crust of bread at least, without making up
silly things about me to try to change the subject?

It's always about taking more from someone else, isn't it.
And this just isn't because of the insatiable need for more
money, but also to punish those who have too much.

 

[Audie]

More rants.
More disconnected lumps of info.
Apparently no interest in the real heart of the thread.

Honestly, when will the English learn their own language!

1. 1.
   speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.

Too, you might consider a bit of at least intro to remedial
psych 101, and avoid this projecting bit.

Look who really does the hyperbolic emotive
rhetoric!

"greedy and cling to their materialism in some kind of insecure desperation."
"extreme capitalists are so frightened of it that they throw the 'commie' brick at the moderates."
"fat cats moan about their tax oppression etc?"
"soup line"

 

[Audie]

It's always about taking more from someone else, isn't it.
And this just isn't because of the insatiable need for more
money, but also to punish those who have too much.

Now now,as our projective pal says, you are just
raging.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yup. Like it or not Lennon took a poor nation of peasants that was lagging very behind in technology, and overthrow a long-established political system and set up Russia, pretty much overnight, to compete with the USA. Whether you want to admit it or not, that is very impressive.

There's no doubt that the USSR competed successfully in some ways,
eg, militarily, technologically, & scientifically. But is this the measure
of what we want from a society? To do this, they inflicted poverty,
famine, & oppression upon the masses, controlling them & diverting
resources from them to achieve these goals. Sure, sure, they had
many soldiers, missiles, guns, tanks, & battleships. But that's about all.
We had those things & more.....washing machines, TVs, free speech,
, cars, fashion, Rocky & Bullwinkle, & Wendy's hamburgers.....

 

[Revoltingest]

Honestly, when will the English learn their own language!

1. 1.
   speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.

Too, you might consider a bit of at least intro to remedial
psych 101, and avoid this projecting bit.

Look who really does the hyperbolic emotive
rhetoric!

"greedy and cling to their materialism in some kind of insecure desperation."
"extreme capitalists are so frightened of it that they throw the 'commie' brick at the moderates."
"fat cats moan about their tax oppression etc?"
"soup line"

Often it's not about what the words mean.
It's about how they make one feel.
Accuracy is irrelevant.