Does any existing faith fit these criteria?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Interesting choice of words.

Interesting and accurate, but that's probably a discussion for a different thread.

I believe in protecting human life bc it's a Principe based on natural law.

The one religious group that immediately comes to mind that also believes this is the Catholic Church... though they probably don't tick most of your other boxes.

We all have a right to our life. But I digress. I'm afraid you might be right, and that's a damn shame if I have to choose between morality and rationality. Those should not be opposed to each other.

To me, they aren't opposed: I see denial of a pregnant person's right to bodily security as both irrational and immoral.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm afraid this thread may get off track here. I believe in social justice for everyone, children of all ages included. And I believe life supercedes every other liberty we have. If we don't support life, we're just cherry picking pet issues, IMHO.
But like I said, my post and question is not about abortion per se. I just needed to include it in the example I have bc I know most justice-focused faiths do not support the protection of the unborn.

Right: because moral justice points toward protecting the right to bodily security, not to denying this right.

To bring this more on point for the thread: it seems to me that the criteria you have are inherently contradictory: you say you want a religion to have "clear moral principles," but you also insist that it uphold immoral views. Finding such a religion is probably going to be as hard as finding a square circle.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Taking religion quizzes isn't helping. I'm wondering if there's a faith tradition other that:
1. Acknowledges and worships the Creator
2. Has clear moral standards based on universal principles (including not supporting abortion-on-demand)
3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)
4. Acknowledges eternal life (meaning being conscious of one's continued existence after death)
5. Isn't ethically-based (bc how does that help me if I wasn't born into that culture)

I think I'm looking for a needle in a haystack, but it might just be there, and if it is, I'm sure you fine folks can help me find it.

I am especially interested in eastern beliefs, as I think I've exhausted my study of Western religions. But I sense these are either atheistic or polytheistic. I know I probably just need to embrace focusing on my own personal spiritual practice and accept that it won't ever include a faith community that fits the above criteria.

I'm looking for suggestions other than Quaker or Unitarian/Universalist (to my knowledge they generally support abortion).

I'm pretty sure I'm looking for a non-Christian system of belief, since there's either a dependence on the Bible alone (which begs the question, how did Christianity spread before near universal literacy and the printing press) or on Bible and church tradition (which depends on the church hierarchy to interpret the Bible for everyone, literate and illiterate alike).

Similarly with Islam, since the Quran is central.

Similarly with Judaism, since the Torah is central. And while I know gentiles can convert, it's still ethno-centric with the idea of a chosen people.

I'm probably also not looking for Hinduism, due to the ethnic centrality.

I am not sure if Buddhism fits the bill or not, bc I've read that not all Buddhists are atheists, but I don't think there's much of a worship component even among those who believe in the Creator. And the idea of happiness being found in ceasing to exist doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not sure if Taoism might be what's left. Or Zoroastrianism. Or maybe Baha'i, but not sure.

Please don't respond at all if you are just going to tell me to believe whatever I want and not worry about finding a group that believes the same thing.

Please also don't respond if you're going to tell me I'm going to hell unless I join your preferred faith.

Thank you to anyone who has read this far! Blessings

That just sounds like general conservative Abrahamic religion. No need to run off to the East when you can find what you're looking for at home. The Gospel was originally taught orally. Illiteracy is also why they put Bible stories in the stained glass art, as well as icons and such.

 

[Nova2216]

Taking religion quizzes isn't helping. I'm wondering if there's a faith tradition other that:
1. Acknowledges and worships the Creator
2. Has clear moral standards based on universal principles (including not supporting abortion-on-demand)
3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)
4. Acknowledges eternal life (meaning being conscious of one's continued existence after death)
5. Isn't ethically-based (bc how does that help me if I wasn't born into that culture)

I think I'm looking for a needle in a haystack, but it might just be there, and if it is, I'm sure you fine folks can help me find it.

I am especially interested in eastern beliefs, as I think I've exhausted my study of Western religions. But I sense these are either atheistic or polytheistic. I know I probably just need to embrace focusing on my own personal spiritual practice and accept that it won't ever include a faith community that fits the above criteria.

I'm looking for suggestions other than Quaker or Unitarian/Universalist (to my knowledge they generally support abortion).

I'm pretty sure I'm looking for a non-Christian system of belief, since there's either a dependence on the Bible alone (which begs the question, how did Christianity spread before near universal literacy and the printing press) or on Bible and church tradition (which depends on the church hierarchy to interpret the Bible for everyone, literate and illiterate alike).

Similarly with Islam, since the Quran is central.

Similarly with Judaism, since the Torah is central. And while I know gentiles can convert, it's still ethno-centric with the idea of a chosen people.

I'm probably also not looking for Hinduism, due to the ethnic centrality.

I am not sure if Buddhism fits the bill or not, bc I've read that not all Buddhists are atheists, but I don't think there's much of a worship component even among those who believe in the Creator. And the idea of happiness being found in ceasing to exist doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not sure if Taoism might be what's left. Or Zoroastrianism. Or maybe Baha'i, but not sure.

Please don't respond at all if you are just going to tell me to believe whatever I want and not worry about finding a group that believes the same thing.

Please also don't respond if you're going to tell me I'm going to hell unless I join your preferred faith.

Thank you to anyone who has read this far! Blessings

I am a member of the church which started in the 1st century (Acts 2).

You can read about it in the NT (Rom.16:16).

Check out - Apologetics Press

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Right: because moral justice points toward protecting the right to bodily security, not to denying this right.

To bring this more on point for the thread: it seems to me that the criteria you have are inherently contradictory: you say you want a religion to have "clear moral principles," but you also insist that it uphold immoral views. Finding such a religion is probably going to be as hard as finding a square circle.

Just agree to disagree about abortion and move on. This isn't a debate thread and arguing about it is inappropriate.

 

[metis]

I think I'm looking for a needle in a haystack, but it might just be there, and if it is, I'm sure you fine folks can help me find it.

One can argue that you really already are there as long as you don't negate having at least some level of personal discernment.

The Catholic Church seems rigid for many of those on the "outside", but those of us on the "inside" know that the Church teaches what it think is most likely correct, but through the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" itself, we also have the role of making choices.

One of the best Catholic books I read on such matters was "Follow Your [Informed] Conscience".

Anyhow, have a Most Blessed Lord's Day.

 

[metis]

I am a member of the church which started in the 1st century (Acts 2).

You can read about it in the NT (Rom.16:16).

Check out - Apologetics Press

Not that I can see.

The "Church" was to be "one body" that was started by Jesus and the Twelve as Paul repeatedly stated, and that "one body" has nothing to do with the "Apologetics Press".

Here: Apostolic succession - Wikipedia

 

[QuestioningMind]

Taking religion quizzes isn't helping. I'm wondering if there's a faith tradition other that:
1. Acknowledges and worships the Creator
2. Has clear moral standards based on universal principles (including not supporting abortion-on-demand)
3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)
4. Acknowledges eternal life (meaning being conscious of one's continued existence after death)
5. Isn't ethically-based (bc how does that help me if I wasn't born into that culture)

I think I'm looking for a needle in a haystack, but it might just be there, and if it is, I'm sure you fine folks can help me find it.

I am especially interested in eastern beliefs, as I think I've exhausted my study of Western religions. But I sense these are either atheistic or polytheistic. I know I probably just need to embrace focusing on my own personal spiritual practice and accept that it won't ever include a faith community that fits the above criteria.

I'm looking for suggestions other than Quaker or Unitarian/Universalist (to my knowledge they generally support abortion).

I'm pretty sure I'm looking for a non-Christian system of belief, since there's either a dependence on the Bible alone (which begs the question, how did Christianity spread before near universal literacy and the printing press) or on Bible and church tradition (which depends on the church hierarchy to interpret the Bible for everyone, literate and illiterate alike).

Similarly with Islam, since the Quran is central.

Similarly with Judaism, since the Torah is central. And while I know gentiles can convert, it's still ethno-centric with the idea of a chosen people.

I'm probably also not looking for Hinduism, due to the ethnic centrality.

I am not sure if Buddhism fits the bill or not, bc I've read that not all Buddhists are atheists, but I don't think there's much of a worship component even among those who believe in the Creator. And the idea of happiness being found in ceasing to exist doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not sure if Taoism might be what's left. Or Zoroastrianism. Or maybe Baha'i, but not sure.

Please don't respond at all if you are just going to tell me to believe whatever I want and not worry about finding a group that believes the same thing.

Please also don't respond if you're going to tell me I'm going to hell unless I join your preferred faith.

Thank you to anyone who has read this far! Blessings

I find it amazing how many theists admit that they are not looking for any sort of genuine truth, but are rather shopping around for a religion that professes that the creator being happens to agree with everything the theists wants to believe is true.

 

[ameyAtmA]

Taking religion quizzes isn't helping. I'm wondering if there's a faith tradition other that:
1. Acknowledges and worships the Creator
2. Has clear moral standards based on universal principles (including not supporting abortion-on-demand)
3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)
4. Acknowledges eternal life (meaning being conscious of one's continued existence after death)
5. Isn't ethically-based (bc how does that help me if I wasn't born into that culture)

I think I'm looking for a needle in a haystack, but it might just be there, and if it is, I'm sure you fine folks can help me find it.

I am especially interested in eastern beliefs, as I think I've exhausted my study of Western religions. But I sense these are either atheistic or polytheistic. I know I probably just need to embrace focusing on my own personal spiritual practice and accept that it won't ever include a faith community that fits the above criteria.

I'm looking for suggestions other than Quaker or Unitarian/Universalist (to my knowledge they generally support abortion).

I'm pretty sure I'm looking for a non-Christian system of belief, since there's either a dependence on the Bible alone (which begs the question, how did Christianity spread before near universal literacy and the printing press) or on Bible and church tradition (which depends on the church hierarchy to interpret the Bible for everyone, literate and illiterate alike).

Similarly with Islam, since the Quran is central.

Similarly with Judaism, since the Torah is central. And while I know gentiles can convert, it's still ethno-centric with the idea of a chosen people.

I'm probably also not looking for Hinduism, due to the ethnic centrality.

I am not sure if Buddhism fits the bill or not, bc I've read that not all Buddhists are atheists, but I don't think there's much of a worship component even among those who believe in the Creator. And the idea of happiness being found in ceasing to exist doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not sure if Taoism might be what's left. Or Zoroastrianism. Or maybe Baha'i, but not sure.

Please don't respond at all if you are just going to tell me to believe whatever I want and not worry about finding a group that believes the same thing.

Please also don't respond if you're going to tell me I'm going to hell unless I join your preferred faith....
....
Thank you to anyone who has read this far! Blessings

Hello Karolina

You may want to read this post carefully.

Regarding the standard of morals you are looking for -- this post I have linked to may tell you that those like you who are interested in finding out what is authentic and moral - are taught to understand how to uphold 'dharma' i.e. right living -- from their side.
People do what they do, but what can you do, that will least hurt your spiritual evolution and at the same time help those around you do the same - without imposing dogma.

I wish you all the best in your quest. ​

 

[Koldo]

3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)

I am curious. How does that work? How would you get to learn about this religion you are looking for if not through books or through a human institution?

 

[sun rise]

Taking religion quizzes isn't helping. I'm wondering if there's a faith tradition other that:
3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)

From #3, you are not looking for a religion because all religions have books and people who teach. Hindus have the Gita, Ramayana, Puranas etc. Muslims of course have the Quran. Christians and Jews have scriptures. Buddhists have sutras. And all have priests, gurus and teachers of various kinds.

Thus you've eliminated the world religions. If I'm right, you've found yourself looking for a spiritual path where the truth is manifest in your own heart.

 

[shunyadragon]

Taking religion quizzes isn't helping. I'm wondering if there's a faith tradition other that:
1. Acknowledges and worships the Creator
2. Has clear moral standards based on universal principles (including not supporting abortion-on-demand)
3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)
4. Acknowledges eternal life (meaning being conscious of one's continued existence after death)
5. Isn't ethically-based (bc how does that help me if I wasn't born into that culture)

I think I'm looking for a needle in a haystack, but it might just be there, and if it is, I'm sure you fine folks can help me find it.

I am especially interested in eastern beliefs, as I think I've exhausted my study of Western religions. But I sense these are either atheistic or polytheistic. I know I probably just need to embrace focusing on my own personal spiritual practice and accept that it won't ever include a faith community that fits the above criteria.

I'm looking for suggestions other than Quaker or Unitarian/Universalist (to my knowledge they generally support abortion).

I'm pretty sure I'm looking for a non-Christian system of belief, since there's either a dependence on the Bible alone (which begs the question, how did Christianity spread before near universal literacy and the printing press) or on Bible and church tradition (which depends on the church hierarchy to interpret the Bible for everyone, literate and illiterate alike).

Similarly with Islam, since the Quran is central.

Similarly with Judaism, since the Torah is central. And while I know gentiles can convert, it's still ethno-centric with the idea of a chosen people.

I'm probably also not looking for Hinduism, due to the ethnic centrality.

I am not sure if Buddhism fits the bill or not, bc I've read that not all Buddhists are atheists, but I don't think there's much of a worship component even among those who believe in the Creator. And the idea of happiness being found in ceasing to exist doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not sure if Taoism might be what's left. Or Zoroastrianism. Or maybe Baha'i, but not sure.

Please don't respond at all if you are just going to tell me to believe whatever I want and not worry about finding a group that believes the same thing.

Please also don't respond if you're going to tell me I'm going to hell unless I join your preferred faith.

Thank you to anyone who has read this far! Blessings

I believe that the Baha'i Faith best fits what you describe, but my warning is do not seek the shoe that fits, and the Baha'i Fsith shoe likely will not fit you,

My faith of choice is the Baha'i Faith, but I am close to the Unitarians and Buddhism. I consider the Universal perspective beyond any one belief system nor human perspective.The Unitarians represent my humanist side, and The Baha'i Faith my Theist side. Buddhism teaches me that nothing is necessary, and nothing is permanent.

 

[stvdv]

Taking religion quizzes isn't helping. I'm wondering if there's a faith tradition other that:
1. Acknowledges and worships the Creator
2. Has clear moral standards based on universal principles (including not supporting abortion-on-demand)
3. Is accessible universally, not depending on being literate (any faith based on a holy book as the source of truth), or going through a human institution (a learned representative of the faith who interprets the faith for everyone as a way to get around the literacy component)
4. Acknowledges eternal life (meaning being conscious of one's continued existence after death)
5. Isn't ethically-based (bc how does that help me if I wasn't born into that culture)

My Faith tradition as you call it:
1) Yes, my Faith tradition teaches to worship the Creator
2) Yes, heaps of moral standards based on universal principles
3) Yes, it is accessible universally, not depending on being literate....etc
4) Yes, acknowledges eternal life is a major teaching
5) Totally not ethically-based..."There is 1 religion, the religion of Love", "There is 1 race, the race of humanity"...just to mention a few

My Master declared "There is only 1 thing needed...if you cry out for help (you desperately need God's help), then God comes running towards you"

Bible teaches the below, and my Master said the same:
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

The more desperate I am, the quicker God "runs" towards me. I used to pray for troubles, got plenty, but now I manage without this

It is the same as "tuning in into a radio station"...now you need to tune in into God station". Good part is, you need no electrical education for this

Best wishes

 

[Heyo]

From #3, you are not looking for a religion because all religions have books and people who teach. Hindus have the Gita, Ramayana, Puranas etc. Muslims of course have the Quran. Christians and Jews have scriptures. Buddhists have sutras. And all have priests, gurus and teachers of various kinds.

Thus you've eliminated the world religions. If I'm right, you've found yourself looking for a spiritual path where the truth is manifest in your own heart.

Isn't that how mystics (of all religions) work? Never tell anybody anything but lead them to find the "truth" themselves?

 

[Koldo]

My Faith tradition as you call it:
1) Yes, my Faith tradition teaches to worship the Creator
2) Yes, heaps of moral standards based on universal principles
3) Yes, it is accessible universally, not depending on being literate....etc
4) Yes, acknowledges eternal life is a major teaching
5) Totally not ethically-based..."There is 1 religion, the religion of Love", "There is 1 race, the race of humanity"...just to mention a few

My Master declared "There is only 1 thing needed...if you cry out for help (you desperately need God's help), then God comes running towards you"

Bible teaches the below, and my Master said the same:
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

The more desperate I am, the quicker God "runs" towards me. I used to pray for troubles, got plenty, but now I manage without this

It is the same as "tuning in into a radio station"...now you need to tune in into God station". Good part is, you need no electrical education for this

Best wishes

That is possibly one of the easiest claims to falsify as far as religious claims go.
For instance, if it did work like you say, there would be, proportionally, more atheists dying from any given disease than christians (since christians would often ask God for help).

 

[metis]

In my previous post to you, I was in a hurry, so please let me return to your questions, but not to try and tell you where you supposedly must believe.

I'm pretty sure I'm looking for a non-Christian system of belief, since there's either a dependence on the Bible alone...

The Catholic Church doesn't teach sola scriptura, as you probably are already aware of.

...dependence on the Bible alone (which begs the question, how did Christianity spread before near universal literacy and the printing press)

Correct, as the Church didn't select the canon that most Christians use until the 4th century.

The "mark" of the early Church was not which books one used but was whether the appointing of your bishops ("episcopos") could be traced back to the Apostles ("apostolic succession"-- see: Apostolic succession - Wikipedia ). This process can be seen being played out in Acts and the epistles with the appointment process. This was necessitated because splinter groups began to claim that they were the right church with all sorts of different books and different teachings.

or on Bible and church tradition (which depends on the church hierarchy to interpret the Bible for everyone, literate and illiterate alike).

Jesus and the Twelve "taught with authority", thus the Church has that as a role, as all religious institutions do teach. However, as I posted previously, we have the right of discernment as Catholics.

Please don't respond at all if you are just going to tell me to believe whatever I want and not worry about finding a group that believes the same thing.

As it says across from my avatar, I am a theologically naturalistic & ecumenical Catholic who spent 20 years away from the Church, rejoining it three years ago (long story). Thus, I'm about the last person to try and tell you what you must do without being hypocritical.

As a scientist (anthropologist-- now retired), my approach is that any religion trying to claim to be the right one must adhere and not refute what we now know within the realm of science. The church I grew up in was a fundamentalist Protestant church, which I left in my mid 20's because of their rejection of the ToE.

Please also don't respond if you're going to tell me I'm going to hell unless I join your preferred faith.

I've been told to "go to hell" so many times that I'm sorta looking forward to the trip.

Good luck on your journey of faith, and hopefully it won't be anywhere near as rocky as mine was.

 

[sun rise]

Isn't that how mystics (of all religions) work? Never tell anybody anything but lead them to find the "truth" themselves?

Yes.

 

[sun rise]

I've been told to "go to hell" so many times that I'm sorta looking forward to the trip.

But who's vision? Dante? C. S. Lewis Great Divorce? Gary Larson's accordion filled place? Or are you looking forward to it as a "nice place to visit but I would not want to live there" kind of thing?

 

[stvdv]

My Master declared "There is only 1 thing needed...if you cry out for help (you desperately need God's help), then God comes running towards you"

That is possibly one of the easiest claims to falsify as far as religious claims go.

For instance, if it did work like you say, there would be, proportionally, more atheists dying from any given disease than christians (since christians would often ask God for help).

"God comes running towards you", does not imply that God will cure you when you are sick, He might, but most of the time He does not cure. For me, this Divine connection is not about God taking care of my worldly troubles, though I appreciate it, if He does, but I don't demand it. For me, it's about the personal interaction with the Divine, that I enjoy. Gives an extra dimension to my life.

I have been quite sick for decades, but I normally do not ask God to cure "my stuff".

Once (ca. 25 years ago) the doctors told me "you are very sick, you probably will die soon"
I remembered that I heard Sai Baba once tell "God laughs when doctors tell a patient he will die; that is not up to them to tell; God decides".

So, I prayed to Sai Baba "doctors told me I probably die soon, I am fine with that, but if You don't want me to die, You better do something..fast". Next day I was cured. Still I have plenty diseases left. But I do not ask God to cure these. I did tell Him once mentally "I rather die than be in pain any longer". Pain was gone next day. It were not just words "I rather die", I stopped eating/drinking (I really came to the point "enough is enough"), and went into coma...then Sai Baba came, told me some things AND took the pain away.

But He did not cure my diseases. He did cure all the diseases I got, when I was with Him in India; which were quite a few. So He took full responsibility when He invited me to come to Him. But once He came in my dream and told me that soon there will be a malaria outbreak where I was, and I should go to Holland immediately, because my body was too weak and would not survive. When Sai Baba comes in a dream, it's reality (He says, and I know by experience now). So I took the first flight out. When I came back a few month later I heard that 30 westerners ended up in hospital with malaria.

I think it's a funny thing, that Atheist always have this argument that "God should cure them". I thought Atheist were more into taking their own responsibility. I believe that I should do "my stuff". I do not expect God to do it for me. Sai Baba did say "I will take your pain, until you are able to take it yourself". This is how I see it. God is good, but not crazy. IF I mess things up, I don't demand God to take care of it. But I am very grateful that God sometimes comes to my rescue when I mess up. I don't demand it. I see it as Grace.

 

[Nova2216]

Not that I can see.

The "Church" was to be "one body" that was started by Jesus and the Twelve as Paul repeatedly stated, and that "one body" has nothing to do with the "Apologetics Press".

Here: Apostolic succession - Wikipedia

Churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16)

Body of Christ (Rom.7:4)(1Cor. 10:16 ; 12:27) (Eph.4:12)


The Body of Christ = The Church of Christ (Eph.1:22,23) (Col.1:18,24)