Does a Soldier in War Break the 6th Commandment?

[Nakosis]

Here is another question. Say you have some that struck another and killed him. So you strike him and kill him does that mean someone now needs to kill you? Also do these laws apply to women?

That's what they have Rabbis for, to get into the specifics of God's laws. They have much than just the Bible to rely on. Christians rely on the holy spirit to justify their actions.

However in this case I would say their action was just righting the initial wrong. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life. Fair and balanced, like Fox News.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

That's what they have Rabbis for, to get into the specifics of God's laws. They have much than just the Bible to rely on. Christians rely on the holy spirit to justify their actions.

However in this case I would say their action was just righting the initial wrong. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life. Fair and balanced, like Fox News.

So people deciding when it is OK to kill and not God. That was my point.

 

[Father]

Fun fact. pretty much every commandment or rule in the bible. has at least 1 contradiction and loophole. for God is all knowing and sucks at writings

 

[Scott C.]

It so nice that you have an opinion, but I want to see the actual laws as given by God, otherwise it is just people deciding when it is OK to kill and not God.

There are no scriptural references where God tells us to never kill under any circumstances. If you believe God commanded us to never kill, please provide the reference.

 

[Nakosis]

So people deciding when it is OK to kill and not God. That was my point.

No, like I said, it's the holy spirit for Christians and scripture for Jews.

The Jewish rationale for defensive war emerges in a ic discussion of when it is permissible to wage war on the Sabbath:

“Rav Judah stated in the name of Rav: ‘If foreigners besieged Israelite towns, it is not permitted to sally forth against them or to desecrate the Sabbath in any other way on their account,’ and a Tannaitic source teaches the same thing. This, however, applies only where they came for the sake of money matters, but if they came with the intention of taking lives, the people are permitted to sally forth against them with their weapons and to desecrate the Sabbath on their account. Where the attack, however, was made on a town that was close to a frontier [the loss of which would constitute a strategic danger to the other parts of the country], even though they did not come with any intention of taking lives but merely to plunder straw or hay, the people are permitted to sally forth against them with their weapons and to desecrate the Sabbath on their account.” (Eruvin 45a)

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/defensive-war/

 

[Jeremiahcp]

There are no scriptural references where God tells us to never kill under any circumstances. If you believe God commanded us to never kill, please provide the reference.

I believe you, now about those verses you claim that say it is OK to murder. . . .

 

[Jeremiahcp]

No, like I said, it's the holy spirit for Christians and scripture for Jews.

Scripture justifying scripture is circular logic, so that one fails, and next I will simply use my holy spirit detector I found under the cushions of my couch the other day.

 

[Scott C.]

I believe you, now about those verses you claim that say it is OK to murder. . . .

Murder is a sin. "Thou shalt not kill."

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Murder is a sin. "Thou shalt not kill."

Let me re-quote you, as I think you forgot what you said.

A soldier in war is not breaking the commandment "Thou shalt not kill".

Where are the verses justifying killing? Or did I change your mind on that

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I have to say, I think this thread turned out very well. It highlights a fundamental problem with divine morality: the many ways it can be interpreted.

 

[Scott C.]

Let me re-quote you, as I think you forgot what you said.



Where are the verses justifying killing? Or did I change your mind on that

"Thou shalt not kill" = "Thou shalt not murder".
Killing in defense of self, family, or freedom is not murder.

 

[Nakosis]

Scripture justifying scripture is circular logic, so that one fails, and next I will simply use my holy spirit detector I found under the cushions of my couch the other day.

The answers have been provided. Now you just want to be stubborn about it.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

"Thou shalt not kill" = "Thou shalt not murder".
Killing in defense of self, family, or freedom is not murder.

Glad you think so, now can you show that in the scripture.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

The answers have been provided. Now you just want to be stubborn about it.

I am admittedly a very stubborn and close minded person, but bad answers are still bad answers.

 

[Tumah]

You are clearly taking about humans in that post. I ask when it is legal and you go well it depends who you ask, if God has laws then it does not depend who you ask.

You seem to be assuming that Torah Law is for all of mankind? It is not.

"If you were to ask me if it would be legal for Russia to go to war with Ukraine over Crimea, I would tell you that the Torah doesn't have any Laws for any other nation except Israel and to the best of my knowledge, the Laws regarding wars only apply in the land of Israel. So the Torah simply has no opinion about a Russian-Ukranian war"

So as long as we live outside of Israel murder is justified in the eyes of God. Got it, thanks.

No, you asked about war. Murder is one of the Noahide Laws and is prohibited.

Do you not know what a quote is? I am not playing the it is over there somewhere game.

I would hope that you can find explicit statements in a text, but apparently you need someone to hold your hand. That's fine, I have kids, so I'm used to it. Here they are:

Num. 31:1-3"And G-d spoke to Moses saying, 'Avenge the vengeance of the children of Israel from the Midianites and after, you shall be gathered to your nation. And Moses said to the nation, arm from among you men for the army, and they shall be against Midian to give the vengeance of G-d on Midian...'"

Num. 35:16 "And if, with an instrument of iron he hit him and he died, he is a murder; the murder shall be put to death."
(Just in case you ask, the chapter makes clear that this is intentional murder as it differentiates it a few verses later in verses 22-25 from unintentional murder.)

 

[Nakosis]

I am admittedly a very stubborn and close minded person, but bad answers are still bad answers.

You judge them good or bad. The answers remain the same whether you like them or not.

I suspect you neither believe in the Holy Spirit or God. However you're asking a religious question from folks who do. So any answer they give you'll see as bad. Right?

Maybe you should have mentioned originally that you weren't going to accept any answers that involved a supernatural explanation.

 

[Jainarayan]

First off it was quoted to me, I am not the one that took it out of context, but by all means put in proper context and verse then watch me play the same game over and over and over and over. How can you not see the pattern?

Here we go again.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You seem to be assuming that Torah Law is for all of mankind? It is not.


No, you asked about war. Murder is one of the Noahide Laws and is prohibited.


I would hope that you can find explicit statements in a text, but apparently you need someone to hold your hand. That's fine, I have kids, so I'm used to it. Here they are:

Num. 31:1-3"And G-d spoke to Moses saying, 'Avenge the vengeance of the children of Israel from the Midianites and after, you shall be gathered to your nation. And Moses said to the nation, arm from among you men for the army, and they shall be against Midian to give the vengeance of G-d on Midian...'"

Num. 35:16 "And if, with an instrument of iron he hit him and he died, he is a murder; the murder shall be put to death."
(Just in case you ask, the chapter makes clear that this is intentional murder as it differentiates it a few verses later in verses 22-25 from unintentional murder.)

"You seem to be assuming that Torah Law is for all of mankind? It is not."

Sounds like another interpretation issue to me.

"No, you asked about war. Murder is one of the Noahide Laws and is prohibited."

I did ask about war, but that was a new statement about murder based off new content you posted, sorry if that confused you.

"I would hope that you can find explicit statements in a text, but apparently you need someone to hold your hand. That's fine, I have kids, so I'm used to it. Here they are:"

God forbid you are specific. Are you teaching your kids to be as lazy?




"the children of Israel"

Who are the children of Israel and how do you identify them?

"nation"

How do you define nation?

"vengeance of G-d "

What is the vengeance of God?

"with an instrument of iron "

What if I use a wood club?

etc...

I am kind of hoping at some point you will realize where this is going, I mean you said you have kids, right? Then you should realize that questions can always be raised. Scripture has to be interpreted by humans, and in doing so we put our moral stamp on it.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You judge them good or bad. The answers remain the same whether you like them or not.

I suspect you neither believe in the Holy Spirit or God. However you're asking a religious question from folks who do. So any answer they give you'll see as bad. Right?

Maybe you should have mentioned originally that you weren't going to accept any answers that involved a supernatural explanation.

I am so evil that when I prick my finger with a needle it does not ooze blood, but hot tar.
.

 

[Scott C.]

Glad you think so, now can you show that in the scripture.

Are you looking for versus of scripture where God says "if someone is about

Glad you think so, now can you show that in the scripture.

I'm being intentionally cryptic to match your style. But that doesn't seem to be working. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" obviously does not mean that we must never kill under any circumstances. Ex 21:12-14, Deut 21:18-21, Lev 21:9, 1 Sam 15:2-3 are a few quick examples where God expressly commanded someone to kill someone else. This proves that "Thou shalt not kill" does not mean "Thou shalt never kill under any circumstances."

Exodus 22:2-3 says "If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him." This is an example where God does not explicitly require that the property owner kill the thief, but God says that if the owner kills the thief in the act of defending property, the property owner will not be put to death by the law. If he were guily of murder, i.e., if he had broken the commandment "thou shalt not kill", he would have to be put to death. This proves that under Old Testament law, the taking of life to protect property is not a sin.

God does not spell out in the Bible every circumstance under which taking a life would be justified. There are ample examples to give us the guidelines we need to choose wisely. Thankfully, I have never had to make that choice for myself. But if someone came busting through my door and was about to kill my wife, I would not hesitate to shoot him dead with a clear conscience. Also, if the Japanese and Germans are trying to kill me and my family, and take away my freedom, I have no hesitation to kill.

Can you quote anything in the Bible that contradicts this?