Do you understand the New Testament

[free spirit]

The only way to know the character of god is to know god. You must seek god to know him, that is what the people who wrote the scriptures did. If they did not know god, they never would have written about god. God does not come from the bible.

Yes you are correct, God does not come from the bible, but it is a confirmation of what God puts in your heart. If the Holy Spirit of Christ is in your heart and you obey him as he leads you to repentance, then you would acquire the Holy Character of God; and your new character will become your measuring rod in what is right and what is error.

 

[AK4]

the above is almost perfect to me, because it gives you understanding of what was all about.
Another thing, God is God of all man and woman of the world, yes Christians, Muslims, Jews, Indus, Buddhist etc, etc, we are all his children, we may see him differently, but we have and worship one common thing and that is "the holy character of God" also any religion deserving to be called a religion has as the core of its believe "the holy character of God" and Jesus come to show us how to get there if anyone would receive him.

Wow, So jews who deny Jesus worship His holy character? I dont think so. Muslims who say Jesus was great prophet, a great man, some even say sinless but God , worship Jesus' holy character? I think not. Buddhists, Hindus i believe they worship the inner self--i could be wrong here. But anyway you get my drift.

So you have basically said that when muslims worship Allah they are worshipping Jesus? And do this with the other religions and ask the same thing. Christians dont even worship Jesus really with their trinity doctrine. Sad part about it they acknowlege and un-acknowledge him in the same breath.

And how can any other religion know how to do Jesus' holy character if they dont even adhere to His teachings.

"What fellowship does like have with darkness"

 

[George Campbell]

:angel2:
Yep I have been here for a fiew days now but I have allready being wounded, it is war out there the ardest of them are the religious devotees, that is not new I guess because only religious devottes will kill a holy man like 2000 years ago.
Well I am Mr. averige nothing special eccept that I understand the New Terstament and that gets me into trouble all the time. Yep they even use my poor spelling to get at me. I am allergic to pain so if it doesn't get to hot I stay.
love you all :cheer:

I have read(studied) the bible and specifically the new testament no less than ten times. I believe most people know a few chosen verses but have no clue about what's actually in it. There are about 300 direct contradictions in it and there are 162 mentions of hell...70 by Jesus himself.

I think it was Thomas Paine who said the bible was the most talked about and the least examined of any book in history.

 

[free spirit]

Wow, So Jews who deny Jesus worship His holy character? I dont think so. Muslims who say Jesus was great prophet, a great man, some even say sinless but God , worship Jesus' holy character? I think not. Buddhists, Hindus i believe they worship the inner self--i could be wrong here. But anyway you get my drift.

So you have basically said that when muslims worship Allah they are worshipping Jesus? And do this with the other religions and ask the same thing. Christians dont even worship Jesus really with their trinity doctrine. Sad part about it they acknowlege and un-acknowledge him in the same breath.

And how can any other religion know how to do Jesus' holy character if they dont even adhere to His teachings.

God's Holy Character was known before Jesus walked the earth, we know that men can only reach holiness through him, nevertheless man everywhere are seeking God's holy character.

"What fellowship does like have with darkness"

The universal truth is that everyone knows what is holy and what is sin.
those who believe in the existence of God try to be holy as he is holy the best way they can.
Romans 3:29, "Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of gentiles also? Yes of gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one"
Those who do not believe in a God do not even try, they are in darkness and without hope in the world.

 

[free spirit]

I have read(studied) the bible and specifically the new testament no less than ten times. I believe most people know a few chosen verses but have no clue about what's actually in it. There are about 300 direct contradictions in it and there are 162 mentions of hell...70 by Jesus himself.

I think it was Thomas Paine who said the bible was the most talked about and the least examined of any book in history.

Yes we need the Holy Spirit to open up our mind so we can understand the scriptures.
The majority of Christians despite ample evidence that the scriptures have been contaminated by men, refuses to do anything about it.
Jesus himself warned us many times that deceivers were going to come, the Apostles also testified in the scriptures from the very beginning of Christianity, that deceivers were working hard to adulterate the message of truth. But we disregard these warnings put there exclusively for our protection, and naively choose to believe that the evil workers of that time, were some how not able to contaminate the written word of God. The evidence of contamination is all around us to see, for the Scriptures in its present form have given rise to countless “Christian faiths”, all of which stands as proof of the presence of introduced ambiguities, which are the cause of our failure to understand the purpose and wisdom of God, and the need to pursue with endurance the truth in the unity of brotherly love.

The disappointment of the apostle Paul expressed in 1st Corinthians 1 – 11 – 12 – 13, is a mirror image of the present division and discord among Christian Churches, for he says, “For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, ‘I am of Paul,’ and ‘I of Apollos,’ and ‘I of Cephas,’ and ‘I of Christ.’ Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptised in the name of Paul? Just consider, how can the above divisions still exist, or indeed prosper, even today? When we all know, or should know, that there is only one faith, one baptism and one hope of our call.

The following scriptures are reliable testimony of the existence of stumbling blocks for in Matthew 13 – 24 – 25, Jesus said, “He presented another parable to them, saying. The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away.” And in Matthew 18 – 7, again Jesus said, “Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!”

Also 2nd Peter 3 – 16, strongly warned us by saying, “As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also to the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” Again 2nd Peter 2 – 1 – 2, is very specific by saying, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned.”

Also the apostle Paul testify about the future teaching of untruth, for we read in 2nd Timothy 4 – 3 – 4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their earsfrom the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”

By these reliable and undeniable testimonies, I am fully convinced that early in the Christian era the inspired Holy Word of God was contaminated by the word of man, making many parts of the New Testament open to speculations, which create anomalies and ambiguities, which work against the knowledge of God.

 

[free spirit]

There is much more to knowing god than reading books. Jesus summed up the whole of scripture in two holy works, which can be found in Leviticus 19, and Deuteronomy 6.

No man can keep the law, without first change his fleshly character.
The Holy Spirit of Christ has taken up this work, by changing our character from the inside of those who would obey him.
Now we have one law "love your neighbor like yourself" simple but very hard to do without the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[theosopher]

"No man can keep the law, without first change his fleshly character."

God almighty said you can keep the law because it is not hard to do.

"Now we have one law "love your neighbor like yourself" simple but very hard to do without the help of the Holy Spirit."

The Holy spirit gave you this law in Leviticus 19:18

Solomon said that there is nothing new under the sun. So wise up...

 

[free spirit]

"No man can keep the law, without first change his fleshly character."

God almighty said you can keep the law because it is not hard to do.

"Now we have one law "love your neighbor like yourself" simple but very hard to do without the help of the Holy Spirit."

The Holy spirit gave you this law in Leviticus 19:18

Solomon said that there is nothing new under the sun. So wise up...

Abraham was on this earth long before Solomon, therefore I am :sorry1: BUT,
We read in Roman 3:19 to 31, Now we know that whatever the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God. because by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight; for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distintion; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in his blood through faith.
This was to demostrate his righteousness, because in the forbearance of God he passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of his righteousness at the present time, that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Where then is boasting? it is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of gentiles also? Yes of gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the law." What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the scripture say? "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justified the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works. "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE lORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."
Is this blessing then upon the circumcised, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS RECKONED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." How then was it reckoned? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised."

 

[theosopher]

Abraham was on this earth long before Solomon, therefore I am :sorry1: BUT,
We read in Roman 3:19 to 31, Now we know that whatever the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God. because by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight; for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distintion; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in his blood through faith.
This was to demostrate his righteousness, because in the forbearance of God he passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of his righteousness at the present time, that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Where then is boasting? it is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of gentiles also? Yes of gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the law." What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the scripture say? "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justified the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works. "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE lORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."
Is this blessing then upon the circumcised, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS RECKONED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." How then was it reckoned? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised."

I don't take Paul seriously....

 

[free spirit]

I don't take Paul seriously....

Nor the story of Abraham for that matter.
You should know Once you break the law, you are guilty of the law, unless God forgives you.
But If there is no law neither is there violation.
Obviously this thread is not for you, you are a fish out of your water.
God bless and
Good luck

 

[AK4]

Originally Posted by free spirit
God's Holy Character was known before Jesus walked the earth, we know that men can only reach holiness through him, nevertheless man everywhere are seeking God's holy character.The universal truth is that everyone knows what is holy and what is sin.
those who believe in the existence of God try to be holy as he is holy the best way they can.
Romans 3:29, "Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of gentiles also? Yes of gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one"
Those who do not believe in a God do not even try, they are in darkness and without hope in the world.


See these types of statements go against scripture so much. Do you think its just a coincidence or that there is a reason why this verse and many others like it are in the scriptures

Romans 3:10

There Is None Righteous​

Romans3:9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one:
11there is none that understandeth,
there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way,
they are together become unprofitable;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre;
with their tongues they have used deceit;
the poison of asps is under their lips:
14whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15their feet are swift to shed blood:
16destruction and misery are in their ways:
17and the way of peace have they not known:
18there is no fear of God before their eyes. ​

Or i guess things have changed now since Jesus came? Nope. Why? I will let Jesus answer


Luke 17:26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: ... 30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.


So either you are right and the scriptures are wrong or you are wrong and the scriptures are right. Which is it?

 

[AK4]

I have read(studied) the bible and specifically the new testament no less than ten times. I believe most people know a few chosen verses but have no clue about what's actually in it.

I agree with this statement

There are about 300 direct contradictions in it

In the translation you read this may be and when you take it literally may be, but we are told to match spiritual with spiritual and spiritually there are absolutely no contradictions. None. You just gotta be able to understand the spiritual and most people dont.

and there are 162 mentions of hell...70 by Jesus himself.

Wrong! Jesus mentioned "hell" only 16 times in the Greek Scriptures. Actually "hell" is not in the greek scriptures. Its hades and it means the imperceptible not hell.

I think it was Thomas Paine who said the bible was the most talked about and the least examined of any book in history.

I would disagree with that also because there are countless commentaries out there one can read, not that i have cus i havent but you can also see the influence on the world these "scholars" and "theologians" have had on everything. Take for instance this hell and eternity and freewill etc etc etc. Take those three mentioned here and see how much the examining has been done.

Oops well i take that back, it is the least examined by the masses [us common folk per se] because they [most common folk] take that their preacher or whatever know what they are talking about and dont do their own homework

 

[AK4]

TO THEOSOPHER

Quote:

This is simply more and more convoluted. How can anyone ask god for help with no will? You simply do not know the meaning of the words. How does one love god with no will. Love is an act of the will.

Moses said in these books I put before you life and death, choose life.

Did i say we didnt have a will? NO. PAY ATTENTION TO THE WORDS. I said we have no FREEwill. I dont know the meaning of words huh? Would you like me to show you how much YOU dont know the meaning of words? Would you? We can take this word freewill and I will corner you till you change to a different word and then i will corner you again on the new word again and on and on. We can see who will look like they dont know the meaning of words

Here let me start you off. We got

freewill
free choice
free moral agency
free decisions
limited freewill
free volition
free ability
etc etc etc

You should ask yourself, how CAN one love God BEFORE God gives the gift of faith to them, since we all know and accept, but christianity seems to FORGET,
CONVENIENTLY so they can keep their doctrine of freewill, that faith is a gift FROM GOD and how does the rest of the verse finish--AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES.

In otherwords NOT OF YOUR.

freewill
free choice
free moral agency
free decisions
limited freewill
free volition
free ability
etc etc etc

Sorry i came off a bit strong here. But i did have to make my point. Hope you understand.

 

[free spirit]

Originally Posted by free spirit
God's Holy Character was known before Jesus walked the earth, we know that men can only reach holiness through him, nevertheless man everywhere are seeking God's holy character.The universal truth is that everyone knows what is holy and what is sin.
those who believe in the existence of God try to be holy as he is holy the best way they can.
Romans 3:29, "Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of gentiles also? Yes of gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one"
Those who do not believe in a God do not even try, they are in darkness and without hope in the world.


See these types of statements go against scripture so much. Do you think its just a coincidence or that there is a reason why this verse and many others like it are in the scriptures

Romans 3:10

There Is None Righteous​

Romans3:9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one:
11there is none that understandeth,
there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way,
they are together become unprofitable;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre;
with their tongues they have used deceit;
the poison of asps is under their lips:
14whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15their feet are swift to shed blood:
16destruction and misery are in their ways:
17and the way of peace have they not known:
18there is no fear of God before their eyes. ​

Or i guess things have changed now since Jesus came? Nope. Why? I will let Jesus answer


Luke 17:26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: ... 30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.


So either you are right and the scriptures are wrong or you are wrong and the scriptures are right. Which is it?

Well now, you have just condemned us both with the world as hypocrites, just when I was beginning to think that you at list were on the level. Please send me part 2 on free will.
By the way, in the day of Noah God found eight righteous persons, I have a hope to be one of those.

 

[AK4]

Well now, you have just condemned us both with the world as hypocrites, just when I was beginning to think that you at list were on the level. Please send me part 2 on free will.

How is that? Yes i will be happy to send it to you.

 

[George Campbell]

When I first got involved with the bible over 50 years ago I began to notice one glaring thing. It requires some authority to interpret it and what they spout is never simple and really doesn't say what one reads from it. I guess that's why preachers and written concordances are necessary. The bible is so full of contradictions if one is so a mind they can make just about anything from it.

When I was a teen ager someone told me that if a major newspaper had sent twelve star reporters to cover the 18 months Jusus was on the prowl and if they had brought back the new testament all of them would have been fired and the story would not have been printed.

 

[free spirit]

When I first got involved with the bible over 50 years ago I began to notice one glaring thing. It requires some authority to interpret it and what they spout is never simple and really doesn't say what one reads from it. I guess that's why preachers and written concordances are necessary. The bible is so full of contradictions if one is so a mind they can make just about anything from it.

When I was a teen ager someone told me that if a major newspaper had sent twelve star reporters to cover the 18 months Jesus was on the prowl and if they had brought back the new testament all of them would have been fired and the story would not have been printed.

Yes you would have been correct if we did not have the Holy Spirit given to us, for we read in John 14:26, "But the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

 

[free spirit]

How is that?

Well, if "there is no one that seeks for God" that includes us don't you think?

 

[AK4]

When I first got involved with the bible over 50 years ago I began to notice one glaring thing. It requires some authority to interpret it and what they spout is never simple and really doesn't say what one reads from it. I guess that's why preachers and written concordances are necessary. The bible is so full of contradictions if one is so a mind they can make just about anything from it.

When I was a teen ager someone told me that if a major newspaper had sent twelve star reporters to cover the 18 months Jusus was on the prowl and if they had brought back the new testament all of them would have been fired and the story would not have been printed.

Honestly, its the theologians and scholars who have well... i let Jesus say it

Mt 23:24 -"You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Meaning they have made the simplicity of the Gospel to a mess of confusion and contradiction. Plainly put--they make God a liar. Yes on the surface some things "appear" to be contradictory and when these say to scholars stick with the "god of context" and "proper heurmanutics" and "exegisis" to try to explain something with their "wisdom" it makes the Word contradictory but that is not how God says to do it in the scriptures. Basically its on giant puzzle--"here a little, there a little" and "rightly dividing the word" as the verses goes and "no scripture is of its own interpretation" etc etc. Also they literalise the spiritual--thats a no no.

I would be cautious of preachers because most just parrot the same stuff from what they learned at bible cemetaries, oops bible seminaries. And actually the bible teaches that it really is those who are not in some kind of an authority who has the real knowledge given to them.

EDIT--might i add to the first paragraph--its not just the theologians and scholars but also the clergy and bad inconsistent translations of scriptures.

 

[AK4]

Well, if "there is no one that seeks for God" that includes us don't you think?

The way to make that harmonise with the rest of scripture is two ways [there may be more]

1. This could be speaking about before He starts to drag us to Him

or

2. People may be seeking after the wrong god. Meaning that they are seeking a god, but since they dont know the one true God they are not really seeking Him. I.E. those seeking the trinity god or Allah or whoever else out.

Then again these both can be true at the same time

Edit--- i just thought of some more--basically they could be following/seeking after one of the idols of their heart instead of truly seek or keeping with their "first {paramount] love". I.E. some do this by making/seeking out to do more church activities than finding the truths of God.