Do you think revenge is okay?

[Me Myself]

Do you think revenge is morally acceptable as a goal in itself under some contexts? If you think so, when do you think it is morally okay? Under which contexts?

 

[Willamena]

Revenge accomplishes nothing, and is childish.

 

[idav]

When it might actually teach something it might be ok. Now if it is just to share the pain I don't see the point, revenge is likely never enough to feel as if justice is served. Just tell the perps to open up their checkbooks and pay me some restitution, all in the name of justice of course.

 

[Quintessence]

Revenge accomplishes nothing, and is childish.

That sounds like something I might have said once upon a time.

Then I began to ask myself it it really accomplishes nothing, and couldn't at all justify that opinion.

I also asked myself why I might call it "childish" and recognized I was projecting a value judgement onto the situation in a way that wasn't fair (and is also an insult to children).

My ethical code doesn't really deal with the topic of revenge directly, but it does speak of compromising conflicts as expediently as possible. Often, that means not taking action against someone in response to their behavior. However, if there's a high probability of continued offense, letting others walk all over you isn't exactly a wise idea. In a way, I don't see my country's justice system as much different than revenge. The only significant difference is who is dishing out the vengeance: the person who was wronged or a third party. To some this is a pretty significant difference, but I question that sometimes given the fixation on punishment in my country's "justice" system.

 

[Me Myself]

When it might actually teach something it might be ok. Now if it is just to share the pain I don't see the point, revenge is likely never enough to feel as if justice is served. Just tell the perps to open up their checkbooks and pay me some restitution, all in the name of justice of course.

But is it revenge then?

I can imagine more than one situation where violence acomplishes something or when a punishment helps correct someone, yet I dont find punishment and revenge to be synonims even though there are many situations where they interlap or they might feel as if they interlap.

Making someone pay with money is a way of trying to correct a behaviour for example. Sure, it can be seen as revenge, but the thing is that I think when revenge is done for revenge's sake, we are missing something.

 

[Father Heathen]

Depending on the situations and context, yes, revenge is acceptable.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Being a user of revenge in some instances, when it's just to share the pain with the one who brought the pain, it is kind of a fairness, isn't it? Or allows the one suffering to feel at ease again.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Do you think revenge is morally acceptable as a goal in itself under some contexts? If you think so, when do you think it is morally okay? Under which contexts?

Ah, to be thankful for stories like The Godfather...

Revenge is the Wild West version of an insitutionalized justice system. It's unorganized frenzy at it's purest, and extremely organized in underground crime.

Revenge I think evolved as a basis of resolving the honor/shame codes of various family clans and feudal lords around the world. Over time, IMO, we began to see the justice system evolve into a system of civilly-recognized retribution, rather than family or individual honor codes of retribution.

I like fables of revenge tales. My favorite is Kill Bill vol 1 and 2, as it's an entire revenge story of The Bride that sets to kill the entire squad of assassins and it's leader, Bill. It's lusciously cathartic that speaks to all of us that feel left out and ignored by a justice system. It's these tales that remind us, though, that "Revenge is a dish best served cold." - (Klingon proverb )

In real life, however, the ideal is to approach the situation where justice must be served to the experts. Not assassins or hired guns or henchmen. Only because I think the risks are too great for the underground, and better to rely on the institutions that practice it openly.

 

[Me Myself]

Depending on the situations and context, yes, revenge is acceptable.

Which situations and contexts?

I can understand it when we are talking about something that prevents further pain to others, not something that inflicts it for the giggles.

Putting someone on jail, self defense, grounding your kid, all justifiable as they have other good goals in place that are not eye for an eye leaving everyone blind.

 

[Me Myself]

Ah, to be thankful for stories like The Godfather...

Revenge is the Wild West version of an insitutionalized justice system. It's unorganized frenzy at it's purest, and extremely organized in underground crime.

Revenge I think evolved as a basis of resolving the honor/shame codes of various family clans and feudal lords around the world. Over time, IMO, we began to see the justice system evolve into a system of civilly-recognized retribution, rather than family or individual honor codes of retribution.

I like fables of revenge tales. My favorite is Kill Bill vol 1 and 2, as it's an entire revenge story of The Bride that sets to kill the entire squad of assassins and it's leader, Bill. It's lusciously cathartic that speaks to all of us that feel left out and ignored by a justice system. It's these tales that remind us, though, that "Revenge is a dish best served cold." - (Klingon proverb )

In real life, however, the ideal is to approach the situation where justice must be served to the experts. Not assassins or hired guns or henchmen. Only because I think the risks are too great for the underground, and better to rely on the institutions that practice it openly.

Oh yes! I LOVE revenge in fiction.

I loved Kill Bill one and the end at two since she finds Bill.

Tarantino is a genius

 

[Father Heathen]

Which situations and contexts?

I can understand it when we are talking about something that prevents further pain to others, not something that inflicts it for the giggles.

Putting someone on jail, self defense, grounding your kid, all justifiable as they have other good goals in place that are not eye for an eye leaving everyone blind.

If you are unjustly wronged or incur a loss by the deliberate actions of others, there is nothing "immoral" in seeking gratification as a means of compensation. Also, it teaches people that negative actions have negative consequences, otherwise a lack of repercussions only serves to reward and reinforce such behavior. Of course, it has to be proportionate.

 

[Me Myself]

If you are unjustly wronged or incur a loss by the deliberate actions of others, there is nothing "immoral" in seeking gratification as a means of compensation. Also, it teaches people that negative actions have negative consequences, otherwise a lack of repercussions only serves to reward and reinforce such behavior. Of course, it has to be proportionate.

But then you are saying that part of the reason is to not reward an immoral behaviour.

 

[Vinayaka]

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" - Gandhi (a rumoured quote)

 

[Father Heathen]

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" - Gandhi (a rumoured quote)

Gandhi threw his family under the bus.

 

[Vouthon]

If you are unjustly wronged or incur a loss by the deliberate actions of others, there is nothing "immoral" in seeking gratification as a means of compensation.

To seek gratification in the subduing of one's enemies creates a cycle of hatred. The person will likely not feel any more guilt or remorse for whatever incurred the "vengeance" rather it will breed further enmity on their part. It is a self-defeating cycle. Once the short-term "release" of having inflicted punishment on the individual subsides, one is left with nothing substantial in the way of "compensation", rather one has merely let go of moral high ground and likely stooped down to the level of the initial persecutor. You usually become what you hate, if the hatred is permitted to consume you.

Vengeance or finding pleasure in the suffering/misfortune of another person does not bring peace. "He robbed me, he cheated me, he verbally abused me". Such a mind-set is never going to be at peace.

The Jewish Tanakh puts it beautifully:

Proverbs 24:17-18

17 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles ; 18 Or the LORD will see it and be displeased

 

[Father Heathen]

But then you are saying that part of the reason is to not reward an immoral behaviour.

What's the problem? Elaborate.

 

[Father Heathen]

To seek gratification in the subduing of one's enemies creates a cycle of hatred. The person will likely not feel any more guilt or remorse for whatever incurred the "vengeance" rather it will breed further enmity on their part. It is a self-defeating cycle. Once the short-term "release" of having inflicted punishment on the individual subsides, one is left with nothing substantial in the way of "compensation", rather one has merely let go of moral high ground and likely stupid to the level of the initial persecutor.

Vengeance does not bring peace. "He robbed me, he beat me, he verbally abused me". Such a mind-set is never going to be at peace.

The Jewish Tanakh puts it beautifully:

Being a submissive doormat and allowing others to walk all over you with impunity doesn't do much to stop "the cycle" either. Every bad action calls for a corrective reaction as a form of repercussion and deterrent, otherwise the behavior becomes reinforced and proliferated.

 

[Me Myself]

To seek gratification in the subduing of one's enemies creates a cycle of hatred. The person will likely not feel any more guilt or remorse for whatever incurred the "vengeance" rather it will breed further enmity on their part. It is a self-defeating cycle. Once the short-term "release" of having inflicted punishment on the individual subsides, one is left with nothing substantial in the way of "compensation", rather one has merely let go of moral high ground and likely stooped down to the level of the initial persecutor. You usually become what you hate, if the hatred is permitted to consume you.

Vengeance or finding pleasure in the suffering/misfortune of another person does not bring peace. "He robbed me, he cheated me, he verbally abused me". Such a mind-set is never going to be at peace.

The Jewish Tanakh puts it beautifully:

Agreed on all accounts.

Well said.

 

[Vouthon]

Putting someone on jail, self defense, grounding your kid, all justifiable as they have other good goals in place that are not eye for an eye leaving everyone blind.

Yes these are all proximate means of justice. Personal vengeance beyond such as these is unethical IMHO. It merely causes more pain out of a painful situation. Why breed more pain?

 

[Me Myself]

Being a submissive doormat and allowing others to walk all over you with impunity doesn't do much to stop "the cycle" either. Every bad action calls for a corrective reaction as a form of repercussion and deterrent, otherwise the behavior becomes reinforced and proliferated.

Then a middle ground must be seeked.