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Do you have to be evil to be LHP?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Then that's your business. :shrug: Why would it be mine?

I guess it isn't.

It just turns out that I have this compulsion towards obsessing with classifications and terms until I feel that I truly know what they mean. Coupled with a radical feeling of mutual responsibility for everyone, that makes LHP a very alien concept to me.

I used to feel troubled by it, until I realized that it is simply not made to be understood by the likes of me and that it is not my fault that it is so.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Then that's your business. :shrug: Why would it be mine?

Beyond that, I was attempting to counter your particular take on RHP with a relevant LHP take.

Ah, but there is the thing. If RHP is defined by doing someone else's will (as crossfire suggested just a few posts ago) then it is at least potentially evil, and almost certainly dangerous.

In a way, the distinction between LHP and RHP seems ilusory, even artificial, to me.
 

NIX

Daughter of Chaos
I guess it isn't.

It just turns out that I have this compulsion towards obsessing with classifications and terms until I feel that I truly know what they mean. Coupled with a radical feeling of mutual responsibility for everyone, that makes LHP a very alien concept to me.

I used to feel troubled by it, until I realized that it is simply not made to be understood by the likes of me and that it is not my fault that it is so.

The LHP is not doctrinal. It is about the individual. It is largely about rising up from within- rather than being risen up from without. Again - You are the God of your own Being and Reality.
 

NIX

Daughter of Chaos
Ah, but there is the thing. If RHP is defined by doing someone else's will (as crossfire suggested just a few posts ago) then it is at least potentially evil, and almost certainly dangerous.

In a way, the distinction between LHP and RHP seems ilusory, even artificial, to me.

What is potentially evil and almost certainly dangerous?
The LHP to RHP people?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Ah, but there is the thing. If RHP is defined by doing someone else's will (as crossfire suggested just a few posts ago) then it is at least potentially evil, and almost certainly dangerous.

In a way, the distinction between LHP and RHP seems ilusory, even artificial, to me.
Try collectivist vs individualist on for size.

And yes, I do agree that RHP can be quite dangerous. (As can the LHP.) Look at all the evil that has been done in the name of god, or of any collective. "A little leaven ferments the lump."
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
It is not that, if I understood disciple well.

It seems to me that he wonders why people would deliberately present themselves as LHP, when the first instinct (for some people anyway) is to understand LHP as synonimous with "a path not to be pursued".

basically.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What is potentially evil and almost certainly dangerous?
The LHP to RHP people?

LHP does seem potentially dangerous to people more suited to RHP, yes.

But what I meant is that RHP isn't "safe", at least not automatically. There is a whole lot of dangers in following someone else's will even if there is no malice involved.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Try collectivist vs individualist on for size.

And yes, I do agree that RHP can be quite dangerous. (As can the LHP.) Look at all the evil that has been done in the name of god, or of any collective. "A little leaven ferments the lump."

Thanks. That is a good comparison. Collectivist and individualist distinctions are of course blurry at best. I don't think that is a problem. The problem is being unprepared to deal with that fuzziness.


ETA: Would it be more accurate to say that one has to have a desire to find his or her own truths and be at least a bit of a rebel in order to fit into LHP?
 
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NIX

Daughter of Chaos
Thanks. That is a good comparison. Collectivist and individualist distinctions are of course blurry at best. I don't think that is a problem. The problem is being unprepared to deal with that fuzziness.

They can both be approaches to beneficial ideals and/or actions, they can both be approaches to destructive ones.
 

NIX

Daughter of Chaos
It is not that, if I understood disciple well.

It seems to me that he wonders why people would deliberately present themselves as LHP, when the first instinct (for some people anyway) is to understand LHP as synonimous with "a path not to be pursued".

I don't think disciple even recognized any sarcasm in Twig Pentagram's answer. I was undecided myself until you brought the matter up.

basically.

Those of the path of the individual are less likely to embody society's collective ideals. They are more likely to dress differently, do their hair differently, express themselves physically in unconventional ways- in ways that they feel creatively express themselves. They do not embody the social safety net of the 'status quo'. I think this alone is more than enough to make many people uncomfortable, nervous, a bit put off even. "If the status quo is good enough for all the rest of us, why isn't it good enough for 'them'?" (whoever the particular 'them' in question may be). Why do they have to be so different? Why do they do/wear/say weird things? Why can't they just get with the program?

And then the programmers don't spin us (non conformers) well. Obviously.
 
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crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Thanks. That is a good comparison. Collectivist and individualist distinctions are of course blurry at best. I don't think that is a problem. The problem is being unprepared to deal with that fuzziness.


ETA: Would it be more accurate to say that one has to have a desire to find his or her own truths and be at least a bit of a rebel in order to fit into LHP?
Dhammapada 12 is a good chapter that will prolly resonate with LHP; here is a good passage from it:

165. By oneself is evil done; by oneself is one defiled. By oneself is evil left undone; by oneself is one made pure. Purity and impurity depend on oneself; no one can purify another.
166. Let one not neglect one's own welfare for the sake of another, however great. Clearly understanding one's own welfare, let one be intent upon the good.
 

NIX

Daughter of Chaos
Thanks. That is a good comparison. Collectivist and individualist distinctions are of course blurry at best. I don't think that is a problem. The problem is being unprepared to deal with that fuzziness.


ETA: Would it be more accurate to say that one has to have a desire to find his or her own truths and be at least a bit of a rebel in order to fit into LHP?

A RHPer might say a 'rebel' sure.
A LHPer is more likely simply disinterested or unenamored by the status quo. :shrug:
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Uh, no, I don't think he's saying that at all. I'm certainly not. Just trying to figure out the LHP designation
Hey, I see it as the path of self-transformation. (Many faceted meaning)
It's the female path in that you labor to give birth to your self.
 

Skorzeny

Member
Bloody hell this took a fair bit out of me; I thought I appreciated before how difficult it is to put your thoughts into comprehensible language - now, I appreciate it even more. I very much expect that the majority of people reading this post will not comprehend the way I understand things, but that is fine - make of this what you will, and I hope that this young apostate has managed to grant the OP some sense of understanding. :thud:



The way I see it is that if we all agree that the majority of LHP practitioners advocate indulgence leading to enhancement rather than meaningless abstinence, and that human nature is something to be nurtured and perfected (rather than deconstructed and recreated as something completely different), then we agree that as 'evil' is a part of being human, then it should be nurtured and perfected like the other aspects of a LHP practitioner's Being.

But then, in saying that, we need to define what 'perfection' (in the sense of developing and controlling human traits/elements such as emotion and perception) actually is. Firstly, though, we must define 'evil':

Most commonly, evil is described as an action, thought, or something akin to these which contains a deliberate intention of malice. Traditionally, an 'evil' action (and probably the most obvious) would be murder; the action of deliberately and unjustifiably robbing another human being of their life (different to manslaughter, the action of robbing another human being of their life in regards to which there exist no variables of morality or other kind of justification). Now, while I personally believe that 'murder' is wrong, let's face it - not everyone on Earth thinks that way (most do, but some, frankly, do not). It is these individuals that one would describe as inherently 'evil'. For example, the recent massacre in Connecticut - a man senselessly and unjustifiably murders twenty-eight people, the majority of which are ignorant (in the literal sense), innocent children. This was murder, and one would certainly not hesitate to describe the killer as 'evil'. While all of us here (I hope) consider this an act exemplary of an evil individual, it is a simple matter of perception for some others - there are people whom do not believe that murder is an act of evil because they do not share the same sense of perception as others around them (I again reiterate that I am not one of these individuals). While this is an extreme example, it does well enough to confirm that the way people perceive 'evil' is different from each other. Let's reasonably agree, then, that 'evil' is a definition that does not suit the same scenario or action in the eyes of each individual.

So, how are these perceptions founded? It is obvious that opposition to murder is inherently acquired from the human soul; it has a definite source, which is your drive as a human to care about those around you, whom help you in one way or another (whether this 'drive' is biological or divine in nature is for another thread). In the same way, religion, a huge part of human life, has a gigantic impact on peoples' perception. Let's take Catholicism - the belief in the Divine Holy Trinity. This particular religion defines 'evil' as what we have already established (an action or thought of deliberate and malicious intention). At the same time, however, it does not give an individual the chance to apply this description to whatever they think it applies to, but instead tells and predetermines what is worthy of the description. The most notable here being the act of 'heresy'.

So, with individual perception tainted by religious perception, a Catholic would view heresy (the denouncement of the power, legitimacy or existence of God or Christ) as an act of evil. Why? Because they were told to. So, we can now reasonably agree that in the case of many religions (this also goes for Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and all the others) the way their practitioners perceive the concept of evil is predetermined by the doctrine of their faith's governing body.

With that being agreed upon, we then ask the question, 'How does this relate to LHP practitioners being evil-doers? Wait - did I just say that?' Yes, you did - because it is ingrained in your sense of perception. Sensationalist media, entertainment and organised religion have taught you that the act of heresy is evil thanks to organised RHP religions being such a widely-spread element of day-to-day human life. Thus, you naturally reel back from it, as you would with the idea of any other 'evil' action taking place.

To me, the Left Hand Path (whichever variant you choose to practice, whether it be Setianism, Satanism, Luciferianism, Demonolatry, Dark Paganism, or any of the others) is an invitation to free your sense of perception - your Self - from the constraints of other men's ideas, so that, come the time when you have mastered the Inner World, you may have come to think for yourself, and to form your own perceptions and ideas of what is right and wrong (beyond basic human nature; murder is definitely out of bounds for most legitimate LHP practitioners - even when it's only them doing the thinking). So, even if it is heresy in the eyes of many RHP practitioners, is it really evil? Of course not. You're just conditioned to think so.

So, let's go back to the first point - the perfection of human elements. I'll keep this part short: Basically, the way I understand it is that as evil practices (per the definition of governing bodies of the RHP) are a part of the Self, LHP practitioners strive to control and understand the concept of evil and use it to fuel the way they practice the rest of their faith. This is perfection; the taming, understanding and controlling of an emotion or element of human existence. How this pertains more specifically to LHP practitioners is elaborated upon below...

'Why all the evil -'
'You said it again.'
'Sorry. Why all the oppositionist views and deliberate provocations towards organised religion? Why do they have to exist as a part of your faith?'

Because most of us are born and raised in the arms of a faith we later do not recognise as our own, and try as hard as we may, it is impossible for these concepts of oppositionism to be removed from our minds. So, we use them - twist them and turn them, transform them into something new - catalysts and physical representations of what we believe goes on inside our minds. The inverted Crucifix on fire - for any Catholic apostate LHP practitioner, this evokes massive amounts of achievement; it is a physical representation of the destruction of previous bonds inside your mind which you wish to remove/destroy. Why? Because they hold back your ability to perceive the world around you the way you want to.

In this sense, the perception of organised RHP religious bodies still impact upon the nature of even the most advanced LHP practitioner. Brian Warner once said that it was his fundamentalist Christian childhood that forged him into the man he is today, and this is something that applies to almost all LHP practitioners. If it were not for the RHP, there would be no need for the oppositionism of the LHP to exist at all.


Edit:

So... In regards to your question:

Whether or not you are evil as a LHP practitioner should not be your concern; if you understand what I've said here, then good and evil should be matters concerning other people and their black-and-white, tunnel-vision-esque sense of perception, and should not concern you. All that should concern you is that what you do makes you happy, without hindering the happiness of those whom do not attempt to hinder yours. If they don't like what you do as a part of your religion then, frankly, **** them - that is their problem, not yours.
 
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