Do you find the teaching of eternal damnation thoroughly repulsive and the epitome of unjust?

[Muffled]

I voted Yes, but to be honest I just see no chance of it being true. As far as I am concerned, I know God is Love, and that God deeply and totally loves his creation. This doesn't fit with that.

I believe that is due to the fact that you don't know God or what love is.

 

[Muffled]

Justice is when the punishment is porportionate to the crime, thus everlasting torture is infinitely excessive and therefore unjust. If there is a god, I believe that they would be a being of pure love and pure logic, therefore anything devoid of reason or compassion could not be of god, which of course rules out the concept of eternal damnation. Besides, isn't the point of punishment supposed to be to teach, correct, and rehabilitate? Otherwise it's simply for the sake of sadistic gratification, which paints god as a rather vile, grotesque being.

I believe it is proportional and realistic. The person who wants God to pat him on the back and say "your sin is ok" is being sadistic.

 

[JustWondering]

The teaching that God sends people to Hell because they reject Him, is seen to be unjust by so many people. The only other option is that when people die, they cease to exist, that is they go into annihilationism. We have to be careful then that we do not start to create our own set of beliefs that suit ourselves, but have no basis in reality. What then is reality? The reality is that Jesus Christ spoke plainly about Hell more than 46 times in the New Testament, and He should know. So why then Hell? If there was no Hell, then where is the justice of God? All the Stalin’s, the Hitler’s, the Idi Amin’s, the Pol Pot’s, all the ruthless murderers, where would the justice be if they die and go into non-existence? If they go into oblivion, then they have got away with their crimes, and their crimes remain unpunished. God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Justice and will not allow wickedness to go unpunished. Whether you think Hell is just or unjust, whether you like it or don’t like it, is irrelevant. But the real question is, is it true, and if so, then I must go with an open mind to God to understand it. Hell is a fact, and you have to get used to it and believe that a perfect God knows what He is doing. Certainty for eternity

When I sometimes hear about heinous crimes on the news I want the perpetrator to be PUNISHED, capital P. That said even I couldn't justify eternal torture, even for Hitler. Hitler was an evil guy but if you indulge in the same behavior he did, regardless of the reason, your no better then he is. If an imperfect being such as myself can understand that, how can a being that doesn't understand it be called perfect? Only a sadist would attempt to justify or indulge in torture.

Secondly, what is your god's definition of justice? Is it an eye for an eye? Is it two eyes for an eye? Justice that requires inflicting suffering on others sounds like the idea of an earthly bloodthirsty tyrant, not a spiritual being that embodies all that is good. Just saying.

 

[metis]

The teaching that God sends people to Hell because they reject Him, is seen to be unjust by so many people.

But can you actually blame people for questioning as to whether there's a God or not? After all, we have no objectively-derived evidence for God and, as we well should know, belief is not based on evidence but on faith.

 

[metis]

I believe that is due to the fact that you [Kirran] don't know God or what love is.

What a terrible, judgmental, and highly bigoted thing to say.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I voted "yes" because I tend to believe in universal reconciliation.

"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of your Mercy. Amen."

 

[Father Heathen]

I believe it is proportional and realistic.

How is torturing someone for eternity over things that are ultimately trivial in any way proportional?

The person who wants God to pat him on the back and say "your sin is ok" is being sadistic.

No one is saying "sin is ok", but you don't hang people for jay walking do you? I don't think you have a very good grasp on this whole proportion thing. You know, justice is when the punishment fits the crime?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

That is the problem. People do not understand that the evil people will be DESTROYED, not tortured. That is a false idea taught by the false religions of this world. You do not throw garbage in a fire to torture it but to destroy it because it is worthless. People who will not follow God's laws are worthless to Him and will be burned up like garbage.

 

[Falvlun]

That is the problem. People do not understand that the evil people will be DESTROYED, not tortured. That is a false idea taught by the false religions of this world. You do not throw garbage in a fire to torture it but to destroy it because it is worthless. People who will not follow God's laws are worthless to Him and will be burned up like garbage.

Oh, that makes me feel sooo much better.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Well, if you live in New York, you must follow the laws of New York. If you live in London, you must follow the laws of London. If you want to live in God's kingdom, you must follow God's laws. Smarty pants people included. So maybe you should feel better. Or maybe not. Or maybe you just don't care or just don't understand.

 

[Falvlun]

Well, if you live in New York, you must follow the laws of New York. If you live in London, you must follow the laws of London. If you want to live in God's kingdom, you must follow God's laws. Smarty pants people included. So maybe you should feel better. Or maybe not. Or maybe you just don't care or just don't understand.

I would gladly follow God's laws and he knows it! I just don't know what they are or where to find them.

To consider me garbage simply because I do not have the same capacity of faith as my more fortunate brethren is a sad reflection of what you consider God's laws to be.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Check the Bible for starters. When Jesus returns He will make sure everyone knows the rules and has a fair chance to follow them. No one will be punished because of ignorance of the law. And no one will be tortured endlessly in a burning pit like the false religions like to teach. God is much different from what most people think and most churches teach.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

People who will not follow God's laws are worthless to Him and will be burned up like garbage.

Complete nonsense. God loves all of His creation, even Satan. If He didn't love something or someone, they or it wouldn't exist since His love is the creative power of the universe which sustains it. Since God's love is eternal, no soul can be destroyed. No soul is "worthless" to God. That's offensive to even think such a thing.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

But can you actually blame people for questioning as to whether there's a God or not? After all, we have no objectively-derived evidence for God and, as we well should know, belief is not based on evidence but on faith.

People question whether there is a God or not is because they have a pre-conceived wrong idea of God and therefore they don’t find Him. Whilst faith can be defined as such:-
Hebrews 11:1 (KJV)
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
There are evidences by which faith can be multiplied:-
1) The Apostle Paul said about this issue:-
Romans 1:19-20 (KJV)
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
The basic breakdown of his statement is that there is that the abundance of the evidence of God is everywhere to be seen in creation, therefore people are without excuse. Evolution is but a theory, and remains so. I am sure that God’s judgment will be perfect on the last day, because He knows all things, including the thoughts of every human being. On judgment day there will be no excuse.
2) You only have to read the Bible to see that there is over 40 authors of 66 books, who have had experiences of one on One with God over 2,500 years. Many of them did not know each other, yet their experiences are consistent with each other, and their writings are consistent. Hope this helps?
Certainty for eternity

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God might love everyone but they must follow His laws if they are to enjoy life with Him in His Kingdom. The only nonsense is people who do not understand the Bible.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

God might love everyone but they must follow His laws if they are to enjoy life with Him in His Kingdom. The only nonsense is people who do not understand the Bible.

You might want to learn to use the quote feature if you want people to know you've replied to them.

So you agree that God loves everyone and that none are "worthless" to Him?

 

[metis]

People question whether there is a God or not is because they have a pre-conceived wrong idea of God and therefore they don’t find Him

Except that people all over the world have different ideas about God or Gods, and it is virtually impossible to state which may be true. You believe in the Bible, but it certainly is not the only set of scriptures in this world.

Evolution is but a theory, and remains so.

"Theory" means something very different in science than it does in common usage, as a scientific theory entails various hypotheses, theorems, and axioms. Life has evolved on Earth and there's no indication that it'll stop evolving.

 

[metis]

God might love everyone but they must follow His laws if they are to enjoy life with Him in His Kingdom. The only nonsense is people who do not understand the Bible.

So, your position is that those who do not agree with you are those who are ignorant about the Bible? You might want to rethink that.

 

[Falvlun]

Check the Bible for starters. When Jesus returns He will make sure everyone knows the rules and has a fair chance to follow them. No one will be punished because of ignorance of the law. And no one will be tortured endlessly in a burning pit like the false religions like to teach. God is much different from what most people think and most churches teach.

Thanks for the advice. I have given the Bible, and Christianity, an honest try. I can no longer accept it as capital T Truth. Perhaps I am Thomas. I must feel the wounds. But no wounds are offered to me to feel.

But your post here is much more hopeful and less damning. I appreciate that.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Most people do not understand that God is not guiding ever move of every person on earth. God is allowing people to run things in order to prove that they cannot do it without Him. Jesus will return and then everyone will see the truth and will see the benefits of following His rules.