Do you find the teaching of eternal damnation thoroughly repulsive and the epitome of unjust?

[Kenny]

In my mind non Christians MUST of been evil, sick, disgusting people, they couldn't be kind people because God was a nice guy! Right?

Why would you think that? This is a good example of not going by what one thinks because one may be wrong.

Did you ever study the Bible?

He wouldnt hurt innocents for just not believing in something right?

I think there may be some value to what you say:

Rom 2:12 "If you sin without knowing what you're doing, God takes that into account."

Apparently He doesn't just "hurt innocents" when they are innocent.

 

[Spiderman]

There arent a billion Christians in the world, .

There's over a billion Catholics and over 900 million Protestants

 

[metis]

If I'm carrying a 2 X 4, and I turn around clobbering you in the head because I didn't know you were behind me, Judaism has it that this is still a sin ("miss the mark"), and that I have a moral obligation to try and correct that wrong. If I refuse to do that, God may well hold that against me.

 

[Spiderman]

Lol, you know ive been reading your posts for quite a bit now and I think that although your heart wants to find, and accept this concept of God, you are too realistic and sensible about its teachings. I don't think you will ever be anything more than a skeptic in this way. No worries though, im right there with you. I deeply want to believe in a God being, an afterlife, and that something deeper is happening beneath the surface. I mean, just imagine how cool a GOD being actually existing would be! Unfortunately our reality would likely be a bit more interesting than the seeming nothingness we experience atm. It appears to all be wishful thinking as far as reality tells it thus far, not that im against being wrong about this. I would prefer my stance to be wrong, my stance unfortunately has much fewer holes I can punch through it than the millions I can throw at religion.

To answer the question however! Yes, the concept of hell is one of the worst concepts the Bible teaches. One of the first things that started me on the opposite track from Christianity was being taught, firmly, about the consequences of losing faith and of those who had no faith, that being hell of course. The problem was I liked people, I enjoyed all kinds of people, I found many people who werent Christians to be just as full of love and kindness as Christians. In my mind non Christians MUST of been evil, sick, disgusting people, they couldn't be kind people because God was a nice guy! Right? He wouldnt hurt innocents for just not believing in something right? It was somewhere around this moment I started to see God as a more petty being and not quite the God I had imagined for years. Ehh, its just a relic from the past from people who adopted a being and tried to make him fit their reality, it doesnt exist and if a God truly did exist and held these rules we are all doomed. He is more twisted than the most evil villain on the planet in that case.

I appreciate your post, it's just that I've had too many coincidences and too much consolation or experiences in prayer or dreams linked to something that happened the next day, and studied too many miracles that baffled scientists to not believe in God.

I'm very sorry that God chose to hide himself and refuse to speak to good people like yourself. It drives me nuts!

 

[Jenny Collins]

Why would you think that? This is a good example of not going by what one thinks because one may be wrong.

Did you ever study the Bible?


I think there may be some value to what you say:

Rom 2:12 "If you sin without knowing what you're doing, God takes that into account."

Apparently He doesn't just "hurt innocents" when they are innocent.

Even if someone is not innocent, they dont deserve eternal torture.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

I voted Yes, but to be honest I just see no chance of it being true. As far as I am concerned, I know God is Love, and that God deeply and totally loves his creation. This doesn't fit with that.

The teaching that God sends people to Hell because they reject Him, is seen to be unjust by so many people. The only other option is that when people die, they cease to exist, that is they go into annihilationism. We have to be careful then that we do not start to create our own set of beliefs that suit ourselves, but have no basis in reality. What then is reality? The reality is that Jesus Christ spoke plainly about Hell more than 46 times in the New Testament, and He should know. So why then Hell? If there was no Hell, then where is the justice of God? All the Stalin’s, the Hitler’s, the Idi Amin’s, the Pol Pot’s, all the ruthless murderers, where would the justice be if they die and go into non-existence? If they go into oblivion, then they have got away with their crimes, and their crimes remain unpunished. God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Justice and will not allow wickedness to go unpunished. Whether you think Hell is just or unjust, whether you like it or don’t like it, is irrelevant. But the real question is, is it true, and if so, then I must go with an open mind to God to understand it. Hell is a fact, and you have to get used to it and believe that a perfect God knows what He is doing. Certainty for eternity

 

[Spiderman]

The teaching that God sends people to Hell because they reject Him, is seen to be unjust by so many people. The only other option is that when people die, they cease to exist, that is they go into annihilationism. We have to be careful then that we do not start to create our own set of beliefs that suit ourselves, but have no basis in reality. What then is reality? The reality is that Jesus Christ spoke plainly about Hell more than 46 times in the New Testament, and He should know. So why then Hell? If there was no Hell, then where is the justice of God? All the Stalin’s, the Hitler’s, the Idi Amin’s, the Pol Pot’s, all the ruthless murderers, where would the justice be if they die and go into non-existence? If they go into oblivion, then they have got away with their crimes, and their crimes remain unpunished. God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Justice and will not allow wickedness to go unpunished. Whether you think Hell is just or unjust, whether you like it or don’t like it, is irrelevant. But the real question is, is it true, and if so, then I must go with an open mind to God to understand it. Hell is a fact, and you have to get used to it and believe that a perfect God knows what He is doing. Certainty for eternity

or hell is a rehabilitation center

 

[Jenny Collins]

The teaching that God sends people to Hell because they reject Him, is seen to be unjust by so many people. The only other option is that when people die, they cease to exist, that is they go into annihilationism. We have to be careful then that we do not start to create our own set of beliefs that suit ourselves, but have no basis in reality. What then is reality? The reality is that Jesus Christ spoke plainly about Hell more than 46 times in the New Testament, and He should know. So why then Hell? If there was no Hell, then where is the justice of God? All the Stalin’s, the Hitler’s, the Idi Amin’s, the Pol Pot’s, all the ruthless murderers, where would the justice be if they die and go into non-existence? If they go into oblivion, then they have got away with their crimes, and their crimes remain unpunished. God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Justice and will not allow wickedness to go unpunished. Whether you think Hell is just or unjust, whether you like it or don’t like it, is irrelevant. But the real question is, is it true, and if so, then I must go with an open mind to God to understand it. Hell is a fact, and you have to get used to it and believe that a perfect God knows what He is doing. Certainty for eternity

The reason it is seen as injust is because it IS unjust. I agree that we must be careful about not forming our own beliefs. That is what clergy did when they deviated from Bible teachings. All of what you refer to as evidence that it exists, proves just the opposite. Fire is symbolic as used in the Bible. Dont listen to lying clergy. If clergy are "blind guides" and people believe them, "both will fall into a pit"

 

[Jenny Collins]

The teaching that God sends people to Hell because they reject Him, is seen to be unjust by so many people. The only other option is that when people die, they cease to exist, that is they go into annihilationism. We have to be careful then that we do not start to create our own set of beliefs that suit ourselves, but have no basis in reality. What then is reality? The reality is that Jesus Christ spoke plainly about Hell more than 46 times in the New Testament, and He should know. So why then Hell? If there was no Hell, then where is the justice of God? All the Stalin’s, the Hitler’s, the Idi Amin’s, the Pol Pot’s, all the ruthless murderers, where would the justice be if they die and go into non-existence? If they go into oblivion, then they have got away with their crimes, and their crimes remain unpunished. God is a God of Love, but He is also a God of Justice and will not allow wickedness to go unpunished. Whether you think Hell is just or unjust, whether you like it or don’t like it, is irrelevant. But the real question is, is it true, and if so, then I must go with an open mind to God to understand it. Hell is a fact, and you have to get used to it and believe that a perfect God knows what He is doing. Certainty for eternity

You mention people like hitler. The problem is that those who believe in Hell,think that people that are just so so or that pick the wrong religion will go there, but when trying to justify this heinous doctrine pull out Hitler and Stalin. Also sending into oblivion is punishment. They dont get the reward. Even in our society, there s the death penalty and it is considered punishment.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I dont send people to hell, they go by their own misfortune.

 

[Jenny Collins]

I dont send people to hell, they go by their own misfortune.[

I dont send people to hell, they go by their own misfortune.

If by Hell, you mean the grave and total annhilation, yes they go there. s far as a place of eternal suffering, the Bible doesnt teach that, no matter w much you want it to exist, and o matter how hard you twist scripture.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

I cringe and grit my teeth with disgust that God would do this to people I know that aren't bad people. Their crime is they don't believe in God or accept the wrong Gods and don't accept Jesus.
So, you don't find the teaching that people will be tossed about in flames while their agonizing flesh is devoured by worms, wailing and gnashing their teeth for eternity, to be disgusting?

What is their crime for receiving such an eternity of torture? Well, not believing in this God that hides himself and refuses to say a word, not accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior. (Excuse me while I vomit!)

We have a book that divides people and contradicts itself that Christians can't agree on it's interpretation, and that is what we have to save souls from this eternity of torture. I see people on the road to Hell every day and what do I have as a life-preserver to try and save some of these drowning people, but a book full of contradictions and easily verifiable falsehoods. I HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER THESE PEOPLE!

God won't speak up. He's watching people die and go to Hell daily and could save the souls of so many atheists by simply speaking up, and he refuses. And he will have people tortured forever and ever and ever for not believing in him. You don't find that unjust and thoroughly repulsive?? *Barf!*

If people are good to a certain extent, then they have accepted God and Jesus to a certain extent.
They may not use those words in the same way that you have decided those words must operate.
I see it this way:
Jesus=Good=God.
Now I see many people disclaim the word 'Jesus' because it has been abused conceptually,
many people also 'hate maths' whilst using it to good affect.
Try and look past the words themselves, and see the Truth that is hidden behind them.

 

[Blackdog22]

Why would you think that? This is a good example of not going by what one thinks because one may be wrong.

Did you ever study the Bible?


I think there may be some value to what you say:

Rom 2:12 "If you sin without knowing what you're doing, God takes that into account."

Apparently He doesn't just "hurt innocents" when they are innocent.

I got to that point because the Old Testament most certainly paints people of other faiths, pagans essentially, as very vile wicked people. I was raised and taught this twice every week in school. It wasn't my own thoughts, it was the thoughts presented to me in the Bible and by those around me. When I questioned it I was given verses on just why gays, drunks, people of different faiths, etc were evil, vile people. Its all there in the book. Whether one wants to ignore these passages or create their own set of beliefs by changing the meanings is another issue entirely. We do know historically how most people took these passages and exactly what they did to people according to the passages and it isn't pretty. Only modern ideas of Christianity try to paint them in a pretty light.

As to God taking into account innocents, or those ignorant of his teachings. Wouldn't that back up an idea that the best thing one could possibly do is irradicate the teaching of Christ so that all could remain ignorant? It would seem that teaching anyone about these concepts only makes them more vulnerable to an eternity in suffering or annihilation, whichever concept you adhere too. Looking at things from this stance would certainly make preachers out in a much darker light wouldn't you think?

 

[Blackdog22]

I dont send people to hell, they go by their own misfortune.

I am taking this to mean that God doesn't send people to hell, they choose to go there themselves. In which case, I choose to not go to Hell and not hold faith in a concept I can't possibly know is true. If I can't do that then the decision has most certainly been made for me by God and not of my own choosing. The fact "some" people can hold onto the idea of such a punishment and then make it out to be the person being punished fault comes off a bit insane. It kind of reminds me of the boyfriend who told his girlfriend she could marry him or he would kill her. Of course when she died by his hand he said, "she chose to die". That would most certainly not be the kind of person I would want to spend eternity with anyways.

All of this is assuming that you meant people choose, and not God.

 

[Blackdog22]

If people are good to a certain extent, then they have accepted God and Jesus to a certain extent.
They may not use those words in the same way that you have decided those words must operate.
I see it this way:
Jesus=Good=God.
Now I see many people disclaim the word 'Jesus' because it has been abused conceptually,
many people also 'hate maths' whilst using it to good affect.
Try and look past the words themselves, and see the Truth that is hidden behind them.

I like this idea, but cant reconcile concepts like "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me" and what you are saying. Jesus also spoke about how one could not get to Heaven on good deeds alone. The Bible definitely seems to promote the idea that being a good person means little without the spiritual concepts that Jesus taught, and only Jesus taught.

I do however really like your stance and hope that much of the Bible is nonsense. The kind of God you speak of would be one that would be much better to have around. Im just not certain why I should think this version of him is more realistic than the one who is coming back to bathe the world in total agony during the end times.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Jesus also spoke about how one could not get to Heaven on good deeds alone.

I do not recall reading that in the 7 times I read the Bible.
Is that perhaps a rumor?
After all the parable of the Good Samaritan tells of a man who is saved by his good deeds
and not by which sect he belongs to.

The kind of God you speak of would be one that would be much better to have around. Im just not certain why I should think this version of him is more realistic than the one who is coming back to bathe the world in total agony during the end times.

The Earth eventually will be destroyed, one way or another.
The Soul transcends all death.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I am taking this to mean that God doesn't send people to hell, they choose to go there themselves. In which case, I choose to not go to Hell and not hold faith in a concept I can't possibly know is true. If I can't do that then the decision has most certainly been made for me by God and not of my own choosing. The fact "some" people can hold onto the idea of such a punishment and then make it out to be the person being punished fault comes off a bit insane. It kind of reminds me of the boyfriend who told his girlfriend she could marry him or he would kill her. Of course when she died by his hand he said, "she chose to die". That would most certainly not be the kind of person I would want to spend eternity with anyways.

All of this is assuming that you meant people choose, and not God.

You assumed wrong. You go to naught if you have a nhillistic nature to a pacifist.

 

[1AOA1]

At some point in the future people will view God and Jesus as people view Zeus and Odin today, and shake their heads in wonderment that anyone could actually believe in such obviously fabricated fairy tales.

UFO's
Bigfoot
Fairies
The Lochness Monster
Ghosts
Leprechauns

Do you really except all the things I listed above as actually existing? I mean, there are eye witnesses and evidence for all of them, so you must.

When we ask if something is existing we are asking if it is part of a particular faith.

 

[Kenny]

Even if someone is not innocent, they dont deserve eternal torture.

There are a few different positions and one being that when Death and Hell get thrown into the Lake of Fire, souls there cease to exist.

I think the greater point is that God doesn't want anyone there and invites them to come to Him for forgiveness and to fulfill His plan for mankind. It is the reason why Jesus died for mankind, to bring grace and salvation for now and for later.

 

[Muffled]

I cringe and grit my teeth with disgust that God would do this to people I know that aren't bad people. Their crime is they don't believe in God or accept the wrong Gods and don't accept Jesus.
So, you don't find the teaching that people will be tossed about in flames while their agonizing flesh is devoured by worms, wailing and gnashing their teeth for eternity, to be disgusting?

What is their crime for receiving such an eternity of torture? Well, not believing in this God that hides himself and refuses to say a word, not accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior. (Excuse me while I vomit!)

We have a book that divides people and contradicts itself that Christians can't agree on it's interpretation, and that is what we have to save souls from this eternity of torture. I see people on the road to Hell every day and what do I have as a life-preserver to try and save some of these drowning people, but a book full of contradictions and easily verifiable falsehoods. I HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER THESE PEOPLE!

God won't speak up. He's watching people die and go to Hell daily and could save the souls of so many atheists by simply speaking up, and he refuses. And he will have people tortured forever and ever and ever for not believing in him. You don't find that unjust and thoroughly repulsive?? *Barf!*

I believe I like it. It is my way or the Hell way. It makes it real simple for those who have trouble grasping concepts.