Do some people want to take away our freedoms one by one?

[Riverwolf]

Very well said. I find myself mourning the loss of common sense on a more regular basis these days as I see lemmings happily being led off the cliff. It appears to me that the issues of the day are not understood by the majority of the voters. During this past election, many young people voted for Obama. They did not know what "Benghazi" was. I blame the media for this. It is way too easy to feed flashing lights and buzz words then to try and distill and relay facts so a person can make up their own minds. I think the critical skill of critical thinking for our young people is becoming a thing of the past.

Actually, this is pretty much business as usual.

From what I understand of American history, this has been the way it's always been. Critical thinking skills has always been relegated to the educated few; if anything, critical thinking among young voters is better than it's ever been.

Besides, when I voted for Obama both times, I was fully aware that I was not voting for a good president; I was voting for the man I felt would be the least evil president.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Actually, this is pretty much business as usual.

From what I understand of American history, this has been the way it's always been. Critical thinking skills has always been relegated to the educated few; if anything, critical thinking among young voters is better than it's ever been.

Besides, when I voted for Obama both times, I was fully aware that I was not voting for a good president; I was voting for the man I felt would be the least evil president.

I think that's what a lot of conservatives and Republicans don't get. The political paradigm seems to be shifting left, and many people voted for Obama, not because they thought he'd be a good president, but because he'd be better than the other guy. I'm a liberal, and even though I don't think Obama is the best guy for the job, he's certainly much better, in my liberal opinion, than any conservative.

 

[Alceste]

Yeah, I understand these challenging aspects, which is why I don't know what the solution is. I do not like the solution of banishment. It strikes me as a short-term attempt to resolve what is a long-term issue, and a poor one at that. It brews a terrible amount of ignorance about religion, and ignorance is a wonderful breeding ground for intolerance and bigotry. It reminds me in a way of "don't ask, don't tell" and is flawed for similar reasons. Hiding these issues in the closet is not a proper long-term solution. We cannot expect tolerance for diversity to brew when we shove it all into the closet and refuse to talk about any of it. Avoiding controversy does not resolve it and ends up being oppressive in a country that is supposed to be about freedom of expression and freedom of religion.

I don't expect overnight solutions, but I think banishing religion from the public sphere entirely is the wrong thing to do. Requiring a religious diversity course in High School, on the other hand, would be a step in the right direction. Hopefully social norms would slowly follow from there to become more accommodating of diversity. It'd take at least a generation, as any major cultural shift does.

Yeah, religious diversity classes would be great, but I just can't see a way to cultivate religious tolerance through the secular school system in a society where a very noisy, politically active religious minority is deeply intolerant of other religions. Already, you've got a news network that is willing to spend all day spinning a terrible shooting spree by a home-schooled Catholic as the result of a lack of prayer in school. I just can't see that demographic feeling satisfied if the school boards said "OK, but we're going to study the Koran and the Bhagavad Ghita alongside the Bible."

Also, it's kind of a moot point because nobody is lobbying for neutral religion classes. Those who are most vocal about losing the "freedom" to pray in school are lobbying for state-funded, state-sanctioned Christian prayer in public schools, and a curriculum that is consistent with a biblical world view, particularly in biology and sex education.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yeah, religious diversity classes would be great, but I just can't see a way to cultivate religious tolerance through the secular school system in a society where a very noisy, politically active religious minority is deeply intolerant of other religions. Already, you've got a news network that is willing to spend all day spinning a terrible shooting spree by a home-schooled Catholic as the result of a lack of prayer in school. I just can't see that demographic feeling satisfied if the school boards said "OK, but we're going to study the Koran and the Bhagavad Ghita alongside the Bible."

Also, it's kind of a moot point because nobody is lobbying for neutral religion classes. Those who are most vocal about losing the "freedom" to pray in school are lobbying for state-funded, state-sanctioned Christian prayer in public schools, and a curriculum that is consistent with a biblical world view, particularly in biology and sex education.

This is why people, Christians, who think that liberals and Democrats are trying to take away their religious rights, always make me laugh, and then cry a little. What they don't realize is that no one is even thinking about trying to take away their rights to their religion. What is being done, however, is making sure that it stays where it's supposed to, in the home, the church, and other private forums, but not out in public, or in the government.

 

[Debater Slayer]

People don't like to see folks practice their religious freedoms any more. We have taken God out of the schools, people prevent religious displays during the holidays and even saying Merry Christmas is frowned upon by the PC police.

Hey, Rick: It sounds like we could work out a mutual solution to our problems here; would you like to swap passports?

(Kidding, kidding... but I honestly don't see how not giving preferential treatment to one belief system over others in schools supposedly takes away any freedoms.)

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

(Kidding, kidding... but I honestly don't see how not giving preferential treatment to one belief system over others in schools supposedly takes away any freedoms.)

It doesn't. Some conservative Christians don't really care if other's beliefs are suppressed or not; others actively try to suppress other belief systems. Conservative Christians in the US feel that they should have some kind of preferential treatment over other religions, due mainly to the idea that they believe that the US is an official Christian nation, instead of a nation that values freedom of all religions.

 

[Revoltingest]

It doesn't. Some conservative Christians don't really care if other's beliefs are suppressed or not; others actively try to suppress other belief systems. Conservative Christians in the US feel that they should have some kind of preferential treatment over other religions, due mainly to the idea that they believe that the US is an official Christian nation, instead of a nation that values freedom of all religions.

Such repressive desires aren't limited to conservative Xians. There are new agers,
Muslims & even some of me own fellow heathens who lust for restrictions on speech.

 

[Foxfire]

I think what I miss in this day and age (and this is where it gets real sticky I suppose) is the prayer at the beginning of class in my homeroom. Now, before there is apoplexy, I can see that because I am in a Christian country (predominantly and Christians founded it) we said a Christian prayer. But what we need IMHO is a period where we stop thinking about ourselves for a change. Where we stop thinking about what we can get out of life and instead think about what life can get out of us. A place and time where we think of something bigger than ourselves. I'm getting perhaps a bit mystical and esoteric here, but meditation and contemplation brings the same idea to mind here. When we can spend a few minutes wishing compassion and peace and fellowship with our brothers and sisters each day, it rubs off a little bit. Hey, I know the world ain't perfect, and it wasn't perfect back in my younger school days either. But taking the time to think and pray about things outside of our wants and needs, about the bigger picture is a healthy habit.

Do you know what I mean in a sense? I am fearing this secularization has swung too far. Just wonderin...........

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Such repressive desires aren't limited to conservative Xians. There are new agers,
Muslims & even some of me own fellow heathens who lust for restrictions on speech.

True, but they're the loudest and most obnoxious about the matter.

 

[Sunstone]

True, but they're the loudest and most obnoxious about the matter.

Certainly in the US.

 

[Revoltingest]

True, but they're the loudest and most obnoxious about the matter.

True dat. But most Xians I personally know are pretty tolerant about speech, even some fundies.
After all, they know that if gov had greater power over what we could or couldn't say, it's not likely
that their particular religious persuasion would be in charge.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think what I miss in this day and age (and this is where it gets real sticky I suppose) is the prayer at the beginning of class in my homeroom. Now, before there is apoplexy, I can see that because I am in a Christian country (predominantly and Christians founded it) we said a Christian prayer. But what we need IMHO is a period where we stop thinking about ourselves for a change. Where we stop thinking about what we can get out of life and instead think about what life can get out of us. A place and time where we think of something bigger than ourselves. I'm getting perhaps a bit mystical and esoteric here, but meditation and contemplation brings the same idea to mind here. When we can spend a few minutes wishing compassion and peace and fellowship with our brothers and sisters each day, it rubs off a little bit. Hey, I know the world ain't perfect, and it wasn't perfect back in my younger school days either. But taking the time to think and pray about things outside of our wants and needs, about the bigger picture is a healthy habit.

Do you know what I mean in a sense? I am fearing this secularization has swung too far. Just wonderin...........

That would be secular, too, because meditation is not inherently religious.

That said, a brief period of meditation on a certain subject isn't a bad idea at all, as long as it's not enforced too harshly. In my old Tae Kwan Do class, at the end of the session, we would take about ten seconds to meditate that involved finding a mistake we made that day, and resolving not to do it again.

But nostalgia should never be a basis for state policy.

 

[BBTimeless]

Why? To anyone who had an issue with that statement, why?

Regardless, though the OP makes some valid points, it's framed in too one-sided a manner - almost to the point of sounding like a conspiracy theory - for me to agree with it or take it very seriously. "They" want to control us? Seriously now, I'm not falling for it: as if "the government" is that united on anything. There is no "they." "They" constitute dozens of distinct branches that don't agree on many things and have very different specializations and roles. "They" certainly aren't nefariously conspiring to screw you. What the is this "us versus them" attitude when this isn't even a simple dichotomy in the first place? I don't get it, and it just sounds paranoid to me.

Sorry it took me so long to reply to you. Hope you had a good holiday. The reason the OP lost my interest is because he is spewing the same nonsense that is broadcasted in Fox news every day. War on this, infringing on that, fear mongering nonsense that I do not take seriously. I do not take it seriously because of the hypocrisy of it all. From what I see, the conservative Christian groups have little to no problem attempting to take away the rights and freedoms of other minorities that they do not agree with. However, if there is an even a inkling of a suggestion that something might make their lives a bit tougher or if something happens they do not agree with, it becomes a "war". It is complete crap.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Sorry it took me so long to reply to you. Hope you had a good holiday. The reason the OP lost my interest is because he is spewing the same nonsense that is broadcasted in Fox news every day. War on this, infringing on that, fear mongering nonsense that I do not take seriously. I do not take it seriously because of the hypocrisy of it all. From what I see, the conservative Christian groups have little to no problem attempting to take away the rights and freedoms of other minorities that they do not agree with. However, if there is an even a inkling of a suggestion that something might make their lives a bit tougher or if something happens they do not agree with, it becomes a "war". It is complete crap.

That's something that's struck me as odd: conservative Christians cry about their rights being taken away, but seem to have no problem in attempting to have others' rights taken away of people and groups that they don't agree with. I wonder when they're going to see the reality of what's really going on.

 

[Reverend Rick]

This is why people, Christians, who think that liberals and Democrats are trying to take away their religious rights, always make me laugh, and then cry a little. What they don't realize is that no one is even thinking about trying to take away their rights to their religion. What is being done, however, is making sure that it stays where it's supposed to, in the home, the church, and other private forums, but not out in public, or in the government.

Freedom of religion cannot be in public???

 

[Reverend Rick]

It doesn't. Some conservative Christians don't really care if other's beliefs are suppressed or not; others actively try to suppress other belief systems. Conservative Christians in the US feel that they should have some kind of preferential treatment over other religions, due mainly to the idea that they believe that the US is an official Christian nation, instead of a nation that values freedom of all religions.

What a steaming pile of horse crap! Fredom of religion is for all religions not just Christianity. :sorry1:

"Some conservative Christians" is a cute qualifier for carrying that broad brush your using.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Sorry it took me so long to reply to you. Hope you had a good holiday. The reason the OP lost my interest is because he is spewing the same nonsense that is broadcasted in Fox news every day. War on this, infringing on that, fear mongering nonsense that I do not take seriously. I do not take it seriously because of the hypocrisy of it all. From what I see, the conservative Christian groups have little to no problem attempting to take away the rights and freedoms of other minorities that they do not agree with. However, if there is an even a inkling of a suggestion that something might make their lives a bit tougher or if something happens they do not agree with, it becomes a "war". It is complete crap.

What complete crap is, I don't get my opinions from FOX news. You most likely watch FOX more than I do. I turned my cable off over a year ago.

All you see is someone with a different viewpoint than you, thats all.

 

[Reverend Rick]

True, but they're the loudest and most obnoxious about the matter.

This is the perfect example of a lame attempt to limit freedom of speech just because you don't agree with it. :shout

I guess I am clinging to my guns and religion right?

 

[BBTimeless]

What complete crap is, I don't get my opinions from FOX news. You most likely watch FOX more than I do. I turned my cable off over a year ago.

All you see is someone with a different viewpoint than you, thats all.

I didn't say you got your opinions from FOX news, I said you shared the same opinion as FOX news. Your viewpoint, while different, is paranoid and hypocritical, that's all.

 

[Revoltingest]

What a steaming pile of horse crap! Fredom of religion is for all religions not just Christianity. :sorry1:
"Some conservative Christians" is a cute qualifier for carrying that broad brush your using.

That got me wondering....is there a picture of this in the internet?
Well, here you are!

Me mum always told me "If you can't contribute something intelligent, give'm some crap!".