Do Mormons accept Muhammad, or do Muslims accept Joseph Smith?

[Badran]

Gosh. I would be a lousy Muslim if I ever attempted to become one, Badran.

I just can't bring myself to think of things as coming directly from God. For me it is a given that any scripture is affected by human work, if not of pure human authory to begin with. There is no other possibility.

Well, that is your belief and i respect it.

Yes, Judaism is clearly an influence in Christianity. The mechanics of it are not very similar to those of the influence of Christianity on Islam, however.

Putting in mind that we don't acknowledge any human affect on the Quran except that humans are the ones who wrote it obviously, it would be impossible for us to inherit anything.

But based on your belief, it could be of course. Which is not something that the OP have clarified, if he clarified that this was based on his beliefs or opinion, and that he is not stating it as a fact, we probably wouldn't have responded, because he is obviously entitled to it.

 

[dust1n]

Sorry I can not trust you. Buddah is more of legand then Jesus of nazarath. 3 scriptures, 3 historis, 3 communities confirm his prophethood and existance. NONE for Buddah!

The OT doesn't confirm Jesus's existence.. so only 2 scriptures, 2 histories...etc.

 

[Father Heathen]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

Why haven't you made that your signature yet?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

My question after reading all these responses is this: "Why do Muslims continue to deny history by claiming Islam, a religion started in the 6th century, is older then both Christianity and Judaism? I think the statement that Islam came out of the Christian tradition is accurate, because I do not believe Islam came through divine revelation, much less Christianity for that matter, but it is older then Islam, so where else could it have come from?

 

[LuisDantas]

My question after reading all these responses is this: "Why do Muslims continue to deny history by claiming Islam, a religion started in the 6th century, is older then both Christianity and Judaism? I think the statement that Islam came out of the Christian tradition is accurate, because I do not believe Islam came through divine revelation, much less Christianity for that matter, but it is older then Islam, so where else could it have come from?

If I am not mistaken, Muslim doctrine claims that Islam comes directly from God by way of a succession of prophets that include Adam himself, as well as Jesus and Mohammad.

Myself, I think that is splitting hairs, but apparently it is important for Muslims to describe Islam as an original doctrine that goes back all the way to the Garden of Eden and had Christianity as a sort of trial run as opposed to a later interaction of the Abrahamic tradition that spawned Judaism and later Christianity.

I'm not sure why.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well I don't accept Islam as being of divine origin, so I have to have another theory as to it's origins. I think it comes from the Christian tradition, but where it parts ways is Muhammad wanted a religion more like Judaism, so he took Christianity and removed certain dogmas that are un-Jewish such as the Trinity, the atonement, the incarnation, etc. Islam is for all respective purposes very similar to Judaism. I think that when Muhammad thought about the possibility that he could be descended from Ishmael, and came to believe he was, it was imperitive for him to make his religion similar to that of his cousins, the Jews.

 

[gruggle10]

"your think"?

 

[LuisDantas]

Surely it is legitimate to have an opinion, Gruggle10.

 

[Badran]

Well I don't accept Islam as being of divine origin, so I have to have another theory as to it's origins. I think it comes from the Christian tradition, but where it parts ways is Muhammad wanted a religion more like Judaism, so he took Christianity and removed certain dogmas that are un-Jewish such as the Trinity, the atonement, the incarnation, etc. Islam is for all respective purposes very similar to Judaism. I think that when Muhammad thought about the possibility that he could be descended from Ishmael, and came to believe he was, it was imperitive for him to make his religion similar to that of his cousins, the Jews.

Well, that's a very nice story, and you are obviously entitled to have your opinion of what Islam came from, but you stated it in your first post just like that, with no facts to support it, and no indication that this is just your personal theory on it, that's why i got provoked.

 

[Badran]

My question after reading all these responses is this: "Why do Muslims continue to deny history by claiming Islam, a religion started in the 6th century, is older then both Christianity and Judaism? I think the statement that Islam came out of the Christian tradition is accurate, because I do not believe Islam came through divine revelation, much less Christianity for that matter, but it is older then Islam, so where else could it have come from?

Who have ever claimed that Islam have came before christianity? If someone did, i'm not sure what to say about that.

However, just because Islam came after christianity doesn't mean that it came out of it, that is only logical because you don't accept that it is a divine revelation.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't accept Christianity is a divine revelation either. I'm going on purely history here. Can you demonstrate historically that Islam is not rooted in Christianity historically?

 

[Badran]

I don't accept Christianity is a divine revelation either. I'm going on purely history here. Can you demonstrate historically that Islam is not rooted in Christianity historically?

Well, like i said this your belief or opinion and you are entitled to it.

As for your question, I don't get it. Do you mean you want me to demonstrate historically that Islam is not derived or affected or copied some parts from christianity?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yes Badran that's what I mean in a nutshell, although copied might be a bad word. Can you show that Islam was not influenced by Christianity and Judaism as well?

 

[Badran]

I don't have the historical information to come even close to proving something like that, especially because i don't even know where and what should i prove it by. So if you are asking me to prove that to you because you want to know, then i'm sorry but i would be unable to do that.

If you are saying that in another context than a question, please clarify.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I want to know why Muslims seem to ignore that their religion came about in the 6th century and deny there's any influences from other places. Btw, I've noticed no Mormons have commented, LOL.

 

[Badran]

Well, a big part would be based on our belief, but also i'm sure that Islamic scholars would have the historical information to be able to answer that, because of course your question must have been asked, i mean all religions are criticized and the scholars job are to find answers. There even might be some members here who might be able to answer your question, maybe Hyperborean or Abu Rashid, i've noticed they seem well aware about such matters.

 

[Eikinkloster]

Well, a big part would be based on our belief, but also i'm sure that Islamic scholars would have the historical information to be able to answer that, because of course your question must have been asked, i mean all religions are criticized and the scholars job are to find answers. There even might be some members here who might be able to answer your question, maybe Hyperborean or Abu Rashid, i've noticed they seem well aware about such matters.

Actually, the *one* context in which someone would deny that Islam is derived from Judaism and Christianity is a fundamentalist Muslim context. Only if you accept that Islam was indeed communicated to Muhammad by God will you not explain it's similarities to both previous religions as derivation. Islam emerged from Christianity about as much as Baha'i emerged from Islam, and you don't see many Muslims disputing the former.

 

[kai]

If i may

the Torah, the Gospels and the Quran were all revealed to man by Allah so its not surprising that there are similarities with Judaism Christianity and Islam. Islam is not derived from Christianity , Christianity in its many forms are considered corrupted Islam as Jesus was revealing Islam.

Thats how i take it , Muslims can correct me if i am wrong

 

[bowingtoGod]

If i may

the Torah, the Gospels and the Quran were all revealed to man by Allah so its not surprising that there are similarities with Judaism Christianity and Islam. Islam is not derived from Christianity , Christianity in its many forms are considered corrupted Islam as Jesus was revealing Islam.

Thats how i take it , Muslims can correct me if i am wrong

that is basically it. But from a non Muslim point of view then the most likely thing is that it came out of Christianity and Judaism.
As for the original point of the topic (I am loling at how off topic everything went) Joseph Smith was just a man. I don't know much about him, other than what little I know about Mormonism. To us (Muslims), he is not a Prophet, because Muhammad (saws) was the last. But I don't know much about him, or his teachings so I can not comment.

 

[gnostic]

As for the original point of the topic (I am loling at how off topic everything went) Joseph Smith was just a man. I don't know much about him, other than what little I know about Mormonism. To us (Muslims), he is not a Prophet, because Muhammad (saws) was the last. But I don't know much about him, or his teachings so I can not comment.

So, are you saying that Muhammad wasn't a "man"?

Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus (etc) weren't each a "man"?