Do liberals and atheists honestly think Hitler represents Christianity?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because Hitler was the crazed maniac under discussion.

You said "there were no padres in Nazi regiments." Show me a regiment in Nazi Germany that didn't have any chaplains.

 

[oldbadger]

You do realize that you said "OK" and then didn't do the thing you said you were going to do, right?

Substitute 'OK' for 'Right' or 'Now'. Where I live that's a way of trying to make new contact.......... it didn't work, I think. Never mind.

Let's try again:

OK

Do you think that the person who wrote this "wanted to bring the people to Jesus, evangelising and teaching Christ's message?"

Hey! If you want to push it, then let's go straight to the question of the thread's title.......
The thread is about 'Do Atheists think that Hitler represents Christianity'.... !

Well, ......... do you?
Do you really think that Hitler had any intention of forming a Christian Third Reich? Do you think that Hitler wanted to bring all the people to Jesus?

What an idea!

 

[oldbadger]

You said "there were no padres in Nazi regiments." Show me a regiment in Nazi Germany that didn't have any chaplains.

Oh dear...........
I'm not doing homework today for you.

Here is a wiki article about just how disinterested Nazi Germany was in a Christian community.

The idea that Hitler was a Christian is junk:

There was some diversity of personal views among the Nazi leadership as to the future of religion in Germany. Anti-Church radicals included Hitler's Personal Secretary Martin Bormann, Minister for Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, paganist Nazi Philosopher Alfred Rosenberg, and paganist occultist Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler. Some Nazis, such as Hans Kerrl, who served as Hitler's Minister for Church Affairs pushed for "Positive Christianity", which was a uniquely Nazi form which rejected its Jewish origins and the Old Testament, and portrayed "true" Christianity as a fight against Jews, with Jesus depicted as an Aryan.[8]

Nazism wanted to transform the subjective consciousness of the German people—their attitudes, values and mentalities—into a single-minded, obedient "national community". The Nazis believed they would therefore have to replace class, religious and regional allegiances.[9] Under the Gleichschaltung process, Hitler attempted to create a unified Protestant Reich Church from Germany's 28 existing Protestant churches. The plan failed, and was resisted by the Confessing Church. Persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany followed the Nazi takeover. Hitler moved quickly to eliminate Political Catholicism. Amid harassment of the Church, the Reich concordat treaty with the Vatican was signed in 1933, and promised to respect Church autonomy. Hitler routinely disregarded the Concordat, closing all Catholic institutions whose functions were not strictly religious. Clergy, nuns, and lay leaders were targeted, with thousands of arrests over the ensuing years. The Church accused the regime of "fundamental hostility to Christ and his Church". Historians resist however a simple equation of Nazi opposition to both Judaism and Christianity. Nazism was clearly willing to use the support of Christians who accepted its ideology, and Nazi opposition to both Judaism and Christianity was not fully analogous in the minds of the Nazis.[10]

Smaller religious minorities such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and Bahá'í Faith were banned in Germany, while the eradication of Judaism by the genocide of its adherents was attempted. The Salvation Army, the Christian Saints and the Seventh-day Adventist Church all disappeared from Germany, while astrologers, healers and fortune tellers were banned. The small pagan "German Faith Movement", which worshipped the sun and seasons, supported the Nazis.[11] Many historians believed that Hitler and the Nazis intended to eradicate Christianity in Germany after winning victory in the war.[12][13]

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Substitute 'OK' for 'Right' or 'Now'. Where I live that's a way of trying to make new contact.......... it didn't work, I think. Never mind.


OK


Hey! If you want to push it, then let's go straight to the question of the thread's title.......
The thread is about 'Do Atheists think that Hitler represents Christianity'.... !

Well, ......... do you?
Do you really think that Hitler had any intention of forming a Christian Third Reich? Do you think that Hitler wanted to bring all the people to Jesus?

What an idea!

I'm not answering your questions until you answer mine.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh dear...........
I'm not doing homework today for you.

IOW, you pulled the claim out of your butt and you don't want to admit it was nonsense.

 

[oldbadger]

IOW, you pulled the claim out of your butt and you don't want to admit it was nonsense.

The nonsense is all about Hitler being a Christian. Both by name and definition he never was.
I hope you read the paras that I copied from wiki.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The nonsense is all about Hitler being a Christian. Both by name and definition he never was.

By the Catholic Church's definition, he most certainly was a Christian, regardless of his views and actions.

But his personal views are mostly irrelevant, since Nazi thought was heavily influenced by Christian beliefs, and the whole thing was designed to be adopted by a mostly-Christian German people.

Christianity has its fingerprints all over Naziism. Maybe your version of Christianity isn't compatible with Naziism, but Christianity is diverse; no one Christian's beliefs are compatible with the entire spectrum of Christianity.

Edit: but you're still not interested in backing up your ridiculous claim that the Nazis didn't have chaplains, eh?

 

[oldbadger]

By the Catholic Church's definition, he most certainly was a Christian, regardless of his views and actions.

But his personal views are mostly irrelevant, since Nazi thought was heavily influenced by Christian beliefs, and the whole thing was designed to be adopted by a mostly-Christian German people.

Christianity has its fingerprints all over Naziism. Maybe your version of Christianity isn't compatible with Naziism, but Christianity is diverse; no one Christian's beliefs are compatible with the entire spectrum of Christianity.

Edit: but you're still not interested in backing up your ridiculous claim that the Nazis didn't have chaplains, eh?

I said that nazi regiments did not have chaplains.
You keep referring to regular troops

Now, did you read the piece that I copied for you? Clearly the Nazi doctrine was nothing to do with Christianity.

It seems as if you want to blame Christianity for the WW2. Yes?
If so, ridiculous

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I wouldn't lump all Trump supporters in to one basket, I know anm English Lady at swimming club who thinks that Trump could have been a Churchill for gathering the people together in a really dark-hour, and she is not religious at all.

But if you mean the horror of Right wing (so-called) Christian extremists, the kind that want to see public executions back for a whole string of OT offences, who want to see Mecca and Medina 'glassed', who believe in Nationalism ........ and worse, why, I don't think that Jesus drives their mindsets, rather that they hold up a cross to hide behind........
.

^^^^ this. The Christian Talaban (evangelicals) are what put tЯump-en-Furer over the top.

True......
Yes..... I have.
I know Christian groups (here) that are decent, peaceful, honest and trustworthy in all that they do, and nothing like the majority who call themselves by that name..

At least we are on somewhat of the same page, except they ought to use a different name. The word 'christian' has become corrupt, and has been usurped by the above. Has been for centuries, really... Few modern groups strictly follow Jesus Traditional Words.

And Hitler was not any kind of Christian, imo..

Puh-tay-toe, Puh-tah-tuh. Since there is no Over Arching Authority, who strikes dead or forces a "FAKE" label on anyone who fails to measure up to **your** standards? What's one to do?

Hitler claimed 'christian' as one of his principle Identities. Just as does tЯump.

If these are false labels? Let's ask Jesus to come down and sort it all out. I absolutely do not trust a single human agency to get it right.

What's that? Jesus absolutely refuses to Police His Followers?

.... yeah... about that---

Many of the SS regiments were penal .......... mixed bag of 'die on frontline or take a worse punishment' soldiers.

Do you think that these were the elite of Nazism?.

Yes, actually, I do-- because photos were not *that* common...

If you are trying to show that Jesus and his message/mission was the cause of Nazi wickedness then 'Good Luck' with that.

Nope. I'm trying to say that there is nobody in authority with respect to what is, and what isn't "christian"

It's as if Jesus is on an extended sabbatical or something...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The gospels are not anonymous, it's just that three were written by 'non-witnesses'.

Three of them were written in the 1st century.

But several generations after the alleged "events".... ever play the game of "gossip" or "telephone"?

No way that any of these stories contain anything reality-based.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Do you really think that Hitler had any intention of forming a Christian Third Reich? Do you think that Hitler wanted to bring all the people to Jesus?

What an idea!

Absolutely! Have you never heard of Aryan Jesus? He had blonde hair, blue eyes, married with 2.5 kids, and was absolutely a NAZI. Sported a swastika-cross around his neck.

Mythic Beings are like that-- they can morph into whatever is needed, to fit the narrative.

If the Real Jesus™ has a problem with it? Why is his principle attribute, one of never-EVER interfering ... with anything?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The nonsense is all about Hitler being a Christian. Both by name and definition he never was.
I hope you read the paras that I copied from wiki.

So YOU say. History tells a very different tale-- one that directly contradicts your claims.

Here's an idea: Let's not rely on YOUR unreliable and un-referenced claims. Who made you an authority anyway?

Let's get Jesus to come down and sort it all out, shall we?

What? Jesus won't do that?

yeah... that's how Mythic Beings operate, isn't it?

 

[oldbadger]

By the Catholic Church's definition, he most certainly was a Christian, regardless of his views and actions.

Rubbish........

But his personal views are mostly irrelevant, since Nazi thought was heavily influenced by Christian beliefs, and the whole thing was designed to be adopted by a mostly-Christian German people.

This thread is about Hitler, his beliefs.

Christianity has its fingerprints all over Naziism. Maybe your version of Christianity isn't compatible with Naziism, but Christianity is diverse; no one Christian's beliefs are compatible with the entire spectrum of Christianity.

I reckon that only evangelical atheists could push this idea.

Edit: but you're still not interested in backing up your ridiculous claim that the Nazis didn't have chaplains, eh?

Now come on........
Time for real history.
Please go to google and enter the link below rather than just click on it.
That just about ends this nonsensical claim that Hitler was a true Christian

- Was Adolf Hitler a Christian? -- TrueOrigin Archive

In Hitler’s words “the heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity” (Hitler, 1953, p. 6). The Jesuits were “swine,” and all of Christianity was “Jewish Christianity” which was comparable with “Jewish Bolshevism.” Hitler concluded that both were evil and both had to be destroyed (Kershaw, 2000, pp. 330, 488). His reasoning was based on his belief that Christianity was an “illegitimate” Jewish child and, as a Jewish child, was swine like its parent that must be eradicated. Hitler considered Christianity the “invention of the Jew Saul” (Azar, 1990, p. 154).
A major reason Hitler opposed Christianity was because Hitler saw Christianity and Science as diametrically opposed to each other (Azar, 1990, p. 154). He concluded science would win, and the Christian church would eventually in due time be destroyed. Hitler even believed science was the creation of the German race. Hitler was trying to use science — especially Darwinism — to create a utopia on Earth, and he made it absolutely clear that there would be “no place in this utopia for the Christian Churches” in his plans for the future of Germany.

 

[oldbadger]

But several generations after the alleged "events".... ever play the game of "gossip" or "telephone"?

No way that any of these stories contain anything reality-based.

How can you fit 'several generations' in to the 70 years of the 1st century after the Jesus mission ended?

Let's start at the beginning.
Do you accept that the story of John the Baptist is a real account?
Let's take it one step at a time.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I said that nazi regiments did not have chaplains.
You keep referring to regular troops

Maybe clarify what you're talking about. The entire Wehrmacht is normally referred to as the armed forces of Nazi Germany.

So did you mean the SS? Because they had chaplains, too.

Now, did you read the piece that I copied for you? Clearly the Nazi doctrine was nothing to do with Christianity.

Except for all the Christianity.

It seems as if you want to blame Christianity for the WW2. Yes?
If so, ridiculous

Martin Luther more than Christianity as a whole. Hitler basically put Luther's anti-Semitic vision - motivated by his faith - into practice.

Of course, Martin Luther hardly invented Christian anti-semitism.

BTW: I hope you don't think I've forgotten that you still haven't answered my question:

Do you think that the person who wrote this "wanted to bring the people to Jesus, evangelising and teaching Christ's message?"

Finally: That young, strong Jews be given flail, ax, spade, spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their noses as imposed upon Adam 's children, Genesis 3:19 — "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." For it will not do that they should let us cursed Goyim work in the sweat of our brow, while they, the holy people, devour our bread in laziness behind the stove and then boast that they are masters over the Christians ; but their laziness should be driven from their back.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Rubbish........


This thread is about Hitler, his beliefs.



I reckon that only evangelical atheists could push this idea.


Now come on........
Time for real history.
Please go to google and enter the link below rather than just click on it.
That just about ends this nonsensical claim that Hitler was a true Christian

- Was Adolf Hitler a Christian? -- TrueOrigin Archive

In Hitler’s words “the heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity” (Hitler, 1953, p. 6). The Jesuits were “swine,” and all of Christianity was “Jewish Christianity” which was comparable with “Jewish Bolshevism.” Hitler concluded that both were evil and both had to be destroyed (Kershaw, 2000, pp. 330, 488). His reasoning was based on his belief that Christianity was an “illegitimate” Jewish child and, as a Jewish child, was swine like its parent that must be eradicated. Hitler considered Christianity the “invention of the Jew Saul” (Azar, 1990, p. 154).
A major reason Hitler opposed Christianity was because Hitler saw Christianity and Science as diametrically opposed to each other (Azar, 1990, p. 154). He concluded science would win, and the Christian church would eventually in due time be destroyed. Hitler even believed science was the creation of the German race. Hitler was trying to use science — especially Darwinism — to create a utopia on Earth, and he made it absolutely clear that there would be “no place in this utopia for the Christian Churches” in his plans for the future of Germany.

FYI: I'm not going to go along with this until you answer my question:

Do you think that the person who wrote this "wanted to bring the people to Jesus, evangelising and teaching Christ's message?"

Finally: That young, strong Jews be given flail, ax, spade, spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their noses as imposed upon Adam 's children, Genesis 3:19 — "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." For it will not do that they should let us cursed Goyim work in the sweat of our brow, while they, the holy people, devour our bread in laziness behind the stove and then boast that they are masters over the Christians ; but their laziness should be driven from their back.

 

[oldbadger]

So YOU say. History tells a very different tale-- one that directly contradicts your claims.

Which part of history directly contradicts the story of Yeshua and the Baptiste? Even critics of Christianity accepted that Jesus was real.

Here's an idea: Let's not rely on YOUR unreliable and un-referenced claims. Who made you an authority anyway?

I'm just telling you about what I found over many years of study. And since I'm not a Christian you can't scream 'agenda!' at me.

Let's get Jesus to come down and sort it all out, shall we?

Yeshua died in the 1st century, so that's odd, especuially coming from an unbeliever...... are you a myther, by the way?

What? Jesus won't do that?

No.... afraid not.

yeah... that's how Mythic Beings operate, isn't it?

Ha ha! Well, you're writing like mythers write, which made your sentence very ironic!

Now if you'll calm down a bit, and look at my details, you'll realise that I am just a historic Jesus student and not a Christian. But I think I know enough to have lots of fun with folks who want to rant at me about the Jesus story.

 

[oldbadger]

M
BTW: I hope you don't think I've forgotten that you still haven't answered my question:

Do you think that the person who wrote this "wanted to bring the people to Jesus, evangelising and teaching Christ's message?"

Finally: That young, strong Jews be given flail, ax, spade, spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their noses as imposed upon Adam 's children, Genesis 3:19 — "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." For it will not do that they should let us cursed Goyim work in the sweat of our brow, while they, the holy people, devour our bread in laziness behind the stove and then boast that they are masters over the Christians ; but their laziness should be driven from their back.

Certainly not.
This was a political rant, intended to influence...... Christian voters!

Look, you have now seen what the true intention was, to subdue any kiond of religions which did not fit with and bolster Hitler's Reich-Plan.

 

[oldbadger]

FYI: I'm not going to go along with this until you answer my question:

Do you think that the person who wrote this "wanted to bring the people to Jesus, evangelising and teaching Christ's message?"

I have answered your question ...... more than once.

If you think that Hitler wanted a Christian Reich then you've lost the pl;ot.
Hitler wanted a HITLER Reich! Hitler wanted to be the centre of it all, not any prophets, trinities, etc.

I have shown that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Certainly not.
This was a political rant, intended to influence...... Christian voters!

Look, you have now seen what the true intention was, to subdue any kiond of religions which did not fit with and bolster Hitler's Reich-Plan.

Thank you.

That quote was from Martin Luther, not Hitler. It was from his book On the Jews and Their Lies. (Edit: which Hitler would have handed out at his rallies, BTW)

So are you dismissing the father of the Reformation - and his movement that now has almost half of the world's Christians - as "not Christian?"