Do girls NEED to just get rid of it?

[T-Dawg]

Your morals are nothing but the "social norms" of another time and place. If you prefer to follow the social norms of ancient Palestine rather than the social norms of your own time and place, that's up to you, but it doesn't make you better or more moral -- just different.

It means that my morals stay the same. It means that the media propaganda machine of today doesn't control my morals, or at least that's what it's supposed to mean.

I have yet to hear a reason why 2000 year old morals are better than 2 year old morals.

This is either you moving the goalposts or me having a bad memory (don't bother telling me which, I already know what you're gonna say). I'm pretty sure I made this comment in response to a guy who thought that his morals were somehow superior to mine because they were newer, but meh.
But, as I said above, it's better to stick to the morals you have (which will inevitably grow older) than to keep coming up with new ones. If your morals change with the cultural trends, and the cultural trends change whenever the media and "celebrity" class changes, you're effectively letting the media and upper class control your morals. Personally, I disdain that, so I don't do it.

 

[Madhuri]

I had no problem waiting for the right person. I lost it at age 20...last year! It was entirely my choice, though I had plenty of opportunity.

 

[T-Dawg]

Question: If you're absolutely sure you've found the right person, why don't you go ahead and marry them? If you're afraid of commitment, then how do you feel comfortable having sex? Isn't sex in and of itself supposed to represent strong commitment in any mature, responsible adult*?

*Mature, responsible adult = someone who can make decent decisions, or, in this case, someone who has sex carefully and only with people (s)he loves. I'm sure most of you agree that things such as one-night stands (I think that's what they're called) are immature, as is seducing a (wo)man to have sex with you and then ditching them, even though they expected a real commitment from you.

 

[Madhuri]

Question: If you're absolutely sure you've found the right person, why don't you go ahead and marry them? If you're afraid of commitment, then how do you feel comfortable having sex? Isn't sex in and of itself supposed to represent strong commitment in any mature, responsible adult*?

*Mature, responsible adult = someone who can make decent decisions, or, in this case, someone who has sex carefully and only with people (s)he loves. I'm sure most of you agree that things such as one-night stands (I think that's what they're called) are immature, as is seducing a (wo)man to have sex with you and then ditching them, even though they expected a real commitment from you.

Hey, are you talking to me or everyone?

 

[DallasApple]

Im sorry being mature enough and ready to have sex with somone takes FAR less commitment than getting married.Someone can be ready to have sex..but not even close to ready to making a life long commitment to that person.

Love

Dallas

 

[Madhuri]

Im sorry being mature enough and ready to have sex with somone takes FAR less commitment than getting married.Someone can be ready to have sex..but not even close to ready to making a life long commitment to that person.

Love

Dallas

Agreed.
It isn't quite so simple in our culture. The expectations and responsibilities and issues of conformity and culturally formed concepts/opinions/beliefs etc. infleunce the decisions we make and what they represent to us.
Sex does not equal marriage, unless you are supported by a strong culture or sub-culture who represent that view.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm talking about virginity. People have fun of virgin girls in the West. Is that true?

Howdy, my dear. Good question.

I would say that girls overall tend to be ridiculed more often than not for either being a prude for not putting out by the male population, or for being a "****" if she does put out by the female population. Our culture still hasn't gotten over it's hang-up with female sexual liberation - hence, the ridicule that comes from both sides. It still seeks any possible means to define and standardize sexuality before (and after) marriage. Therefore, once a woman makes a definitive decision on what she wants in regards to her sexual behavior, she often times has a steep hill to climb socially if she maintains her decisions and her sense of self. Social conventions are tough cookies, and many women crumble emotionally because of this kind of opposition.

All the talk about the number of partners, desiring a virgin for an ego-boost, and pregnancy/disease risk are merely symptoms of a much larger issue: the drive of a society to control and define a woman's sexuality. Whether the pressure is to give it up OR to keep a virginity until marriage, neither scenario respects a woman to decide what she wants for herself. Both continue to trivialize her own wisdom and to make her sexuality into a form of property rights.

I second the idea from earlier in the thread that the most important thing is to educate our young as much as possible on sex and sexuality in order to dispel all the myths that continue to perpetuate. Dallas brought up the "bloody sheet" myth, but there are countless others that teens - and adults - believe to be true.

 

[T-Dawg]

Hey, are you talking to me or everyone?

Anyone who can answer.

Im sorry being mature enough and ready to have sex with somone takes FAR less commitment than getting married.Someone can be ready to have sex..but not even close to ready to making a life long commitment to that person.

My problem exactly - why the heck are you having sex with someone you KNOW you aren't going to spend the rest of your life with? If they aren't good enough to get married to you, why are they good enough to raise your offspring (in addition to supplying half their genetics)?

Sex does not equal marriage, unless you are supported by a strong culture or sub-culture who represent that view.

We need to reinstate that strong culture. I have no idea why people thought it would be a good idea to suddenly reject the morals that had worked for centuries and try to build a new culture with foundations in mob rule directed by the upper class. No, really, why the heck did people suddenly decide at one point (somewhere in the 1960s if I remember correctly) that sex was going to be ten times more casual than it had been for their parents? Usually, I find, when something's rooted in logic and common sense, it takes off slowly and builds up, and when something suddenly springs up out of nowhere and has a mass following, it's rooted in deception or emotion (ie, the Enlightenment spanned over quite some time and started off slowly, with people beginning to make art instead of praying 100% of the time, and then people began to question previous ideas and reinterpret the Bible, and then people started questioning the social systems... Hitler's rise to power, on the other hand, was rather quick, involved almost no thinking on the part of the masses, and almost everyone joined Hitler at once).

Social conventions are tough cookies, and many women crumble emotionally because of this kind of opposition.

I know, it's sad D=. This is why I don't want all of my morals coming from social conventions.

I second the idea from earlier in the thread that the most important thing is to educate our young as much as possible on sex and sexuality in order to dispel all the myths that continue to perpetuate.

I third it. The best way to get someone to be responsible sexually is to convince them through logic and reason why being responsible sexually is a good thing for them. We HAVE to counter this whole "sexual revolution" thing (which, from what I know, is basically a liberal movement telling everyone that they should go out and have casual sex with whomever freely and without commitment) with the facts - we have enough abortions (remember, abortions do hurt the woman, and they are NOT birth control), suicides (people DO commit suicide over losing a boy/girlfriend they thought they were commited to), and sexually transmitted diseases as there are.

 

[DallasApple]

My problem exactly - why the heck are you having sex with someone you KNOW you aren't going to spend the rest of your life with? If they aren't good enough to get married to you, why are they good enough to raise your offspring (in addition to supplying half their genetics)?

YOU dont KNOW you arent going to eventually marry them or not.

I never said that you know you arent EVER going to marry them.

I just dont equate emotionally mature and ready and physically ready for sex with commitment for the REST of your life at 18 or 20 ...or 22 and so on.

They are TWO seperate deals.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

And P>S havign sex does NOT equal raising offspring together..

Love

Dallas

 

[MSizer]

There seem to be so many assumptions here that I don't understand. First of all, the idea that girls are ridiculed for being virgins is arguable, because I don't know of any mature adult that would ridicule a young girl, or girl of any age for that matter. Now, admittedly, it could be that their peers are not so nearly as mature, I don't actually know, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's true.

The other thing that keeps coming up is this morality/sex connection. I don't see how sex is in any way shape or form connected to morality. Can someone please enlighten me?

 

[DallasApple]

I third it. The best way to get someone to be responsible sexually is to convince them through logic and reason why being responsible sexually is a good thing for them. We HAVE to counter this whole "sexual revolution" thing (which, from what I know, is basically a liberal movement telling everyone that they should go out and have casual sex with whomever freely and without commitment) with the facts - we have enough abortions (remember, abortions do hurt the woman, and they are NOT birth control), suicides (people DO commit suicide over losing a boy/girlfriend they thought they were commited to), and sexually transmitted diseases as there are.

MARRIED women HAVE abortions sir.People DO commit suicide that are married as well.Sexually transmitted dieseases ARE contracted within marriage as well.

If you are trying to say that getting married is the solution to abortions..sexually transmitted diseases and suicide you need to do your research.

If EVERYONE never had sex before they were married we would STILL have abortions..sexually transmitted diseases and SUICIDE.

But HEY at least they were married.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

There seem to be so many assumptions here that I don't understand. First of all, the idea that girls are ridiculed for being virgins is arguable, because I don't know of any mature adult that would ridicule a young girl, or girl of any age for that matter. Now, admittedly, it could be that their peers are not so nearly as mature, I don't actually know, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's true.

The other thing that keeps coming up is this morality/sex connection. I don't see how sex is in any way shape or form connected to morality. Can someone please enlighten me?

Its the revolution of casual sex.If you arent married and have sex you are sleeping with strangers and you arent raising kids together either.

This causes abortions..and STD's..and suicide.

Love

Dalals

 

[MSizer]

Its the revolution of casual sex.If you arent married and have sex you are sleeping with strangers and you arent raising kids together either.

This causes abortions..and STD's..and suicide.

Love

Dalals

Hi DallasApple, were you being sarcastic, or do you mean to say that you do think unwed sex leads to abortions STDs and suicide?

 

[DallasApple]

Also from a brief research..

Divorced people are at highest risk of suicide of all groups.:Married people" are in the lowest risk factor.Singles are in between the two.

So if you think about it..YOu are "safest" being single..because if you never get married there is NO chance you will ever be divorced.Which takes you out of that possible risk factor and puts you in the medium risk group.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Hi DallasApple, were you being sarcastic, or do you mean to say that you do think unwed sex leads to abortions STDs and suicide?

Sorry Im so dry..

It was indeed sarcasm.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Hi DallasApple, were you being sarcastic, or do you mean to say that you do think unwed sex leads to abortions STDs and suicide?

And also Im not trying to say that it CANT..Im saying it doesn not make you "immune" if you just 'get married".

Love

Dallas

 

[MSizer]

And also Im not trying to say that it CANT..Im saying it doesn not make you "immune" if you just 'get married".

Love

Dallas

Ah, cool, understood. I agree then. I suspect that people who jump to conclusions like those you were sarcastically pointing out haven't really ever though critically about it. They seem to have some sort of absolutist mentality and refusal to consider that's it's not just as cut and dry as "cuz god said so".

 

[DallasApple]

Ah, cool, understood. I agree then. I suspect that people who jump to conclusions like those you were sarcastically pointing out haven't really ever though critically about it. They seem to have some sort of absolutist mentality and refusal to consider that's it's not just as cut and dry as "cuz god said so".

Yep..I call them "dreamers"..the "know notters".

Where everything is in a perfect little "box".No variables.And most of them have about as much experience as I have in my little pinky finger.

Which makes me jaded ..but not really.

I try not to be critical or cynical..But sometimes I just use sarcasm.

Love

Dallas

 

[T-Dawg]

YOU dont KNOW you arent going to eventually marry them or not.

I never said that you know you arent EVER going to marry them.

If you don't know, why are you having sex? What if the relationship doesn't work out?

And P>S havign sex does NOT equal raising offspring together..

Indeed, for most men these days it equals ditching the woman and letting her raise the offspring, if the birth control fails (or if they were too stupid to use it altogether, which happens, due to a severe lack of sexual education). No wonder there are so many abortions these days D=.

I just dont equate emotionally mature and ready and physically ready for sex with commitment for the REST of your life at 18 or 20 ...or 22 and so on.

I'm not understanding what you're saying. Could you restate it please? It sounds like you're trying to say that emotional maturity and physical maturity are separate, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to the conversation =/.

I don't see how sex is in any way shape or form connected to morality. Can someone please enlighten me?

It's primarily a Christian thing nowadays, but it roots way before that, in Judaism (I'm not sure if any other religion advocates abstinence until marriage or even cares). Basically, sex is the physical (and spiritual) union between man and woman, almost like some kind of metaphorical bond combining the man and woman into one, complete spiritual being under God, or something like that. Naturally, the spiritual union of one's souls with, say, a prostitute sounds unappealing, as prostitution does not involve commitment. Also, more commonly refered to, is the aspect of "saving" oneself for marriage. Since sex is supposed to be this unbreakable bond between man and woman, it's considered wise to only share it with your spouse, and if you have sex before then, you're giving out something that should be reserved for your future spouse.

If you are trying to say that getting married is the solution to abortions..sexually transmitted diseases and suicide you need to do your research.

You missed the point. Some people will kill themselves because they had sex with so and so and thought they had a commitment, then so and so ditched them. That's harder to do in marriage.
Sexually transmitted diseases are transmitted through sex (duh). If everyone only had sex with their spouse, the diseases wouldn't get spread around as quickly.
Married couples are also more prepared for raising children (as opposed to leaving the mother by herself when you find out she's pregnant), thus the need for abortion due to an economic situation should be lowered for some couples.

So if you think about it..YOu are "safest" being single..because if you never get married there is NO chance you will ever be divorced.Which takes you out of that possible risk factor and puts you in the medium risk group.

True. However, if we take away the legal implications of marriage and leave it as only a religious commitment, like it should be, then the divorces will probably go down. Of course, I haven't tested this on human subjects (or lab rats or whatever) or anything, so I don't know. You got any ideas?