Do differences in practices of faith mean we follow the same Jesus Christ?

[sojourner]

Speaking of the un-importance of knowledge in the grander scheme of things...
I Corinthians 8:1 We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God. NIV

But only if knowledge becomes an end in itself. Some seek knowledge and forget to notice God. some seek knowledge in order to get a better look at God.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I appreciate that you disagree with the scriptures here... but I have seen this truth play out a thousand times. People rely on their OWN understanding rather than let the Spirit (our counselor) guide them into an understanding.

 

[Scuba Pete]

For someone guided by the Spirit, you sure missed the point, too!

Since our revelation depends a whole lot on what we read in the Bible,

See, that's the beauty of the Spirit. It presents us truths within and without the Scriptures. I like Jame's take on this:

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does. NIV

The concept of Loving your neighbor is far easier to accept mentally than it is to implement on a daily basis. It's like having a race car with no transmission. You can rev the engine and wow the crowd with all the noise... but until you put it into GEAR, you aren't going anywhere. At least you will get there quickly.

 

[uss_bigd]

See, that's the beauty of the Spirit. It presents us truths within and without the Scriptures. I like Jame's take on this:

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does. NIV

The concept of Loving your neighbor is far easier to accept mentally than it is to implement on a daily basis. It's like having a race car with no transmission. You can rev the engine and wow the crowd with all the noise... but until you put it into GEAR, you aren't going anywhere. At least you will get there quickly.

agreed ... i don't you need to go beyong middle school to understand that ...

 

[uss_bigd]

See, that's the beauty of the Spirit. It presents us truths within and without the Scriptures. I like Jame's take on this:

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does. NIV

The concept of Loving your neighbor is far easier to accept mentally than it is to implement on a daily basis. It's like having a race car with no transmission. You can rev the engine and wow the crowd with all the noise... but until you put it into GEAR, you aren't going anywhere. At least you will get there quickly.

agreed ... i don't think you need to go beyong middle school to understand that ...

 

[sojourner]

Unless we're really not sure what it says. As we all know from reading and listening to tabloid (and other unscrupulous) journalists, it's extremely easy to take things out of context and commit slander and libel.

 

[Scuba Pete]

There's a point in there... but I missed it. Please restate yourself.

 

[doppelganger]

Unless we're really not sure what it says. As we all know from reading and listening to tabloid (and other unscrupulous) journalists, it's extremely easy to take things out of context and commit slander and libel.

That's why it's not a bad idea to stop living in the way of the written code altogether and begin living in the way of the Spirit of love.


BTW, the Bible is not "our" revelation . . . for the simple reason that it's not "my" revelation.

 

[sojourner]

That's why it's not a bad idea to stop living in the way of the written code altogether and begin living in the way of the Spirit of love.


BTW, the Bible is not "our" revelation . . . for the simple reason that it's not "my" revelation.

It is the revelation of the Church ... which is the Body of Christ. Since I am part of that Body, the use of the word "our" is legitimate, when speaking to other members of the Body.

 

[sojourner]

BTW: The "code" we live by is "Love God -- love neighbor." Seems to jive pretty well with your sentiment.

 

[doppelganger]

It is the revelation of the Church ... which is the Body of Christ. Since I am part of that Body, the use of the word "our" is legitimate, when speaking to other members of the Body.

No, at best it's a manifestation of some aspects of the revelation to some who are in the body of Christ. The revelation of the Church is not from the words of men nor from the authority of social institutions to choose books and dogmas. It is exclusively from the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. That one might recognize the voice of God in some of the words chosen by men is quite predictable, but those words are not the revelation that binds the body of Christ together as one. Indeed, they tend to do the opposite - lending themselves to egotistical divisiveness and spellcasting.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Too many have tried to replace the Holy Spirit with the clergy in the church. Jesus gave us the Spirit to be our COUNSELOR and to open up God's will to us.

As the church collectively listens to the Spirit and DOES what it tells us to, we naturally grow closer together.

 

[sojourner]

No, at best it's a manifestation of some aspects of the revelation to some who are in the body of Christ. The revelation of the Church is not from the words of men nor from the authority of social institutions to choose books and dogmas. It is exclusively from the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. That one might recognize the voice of God in some of the words chosen by men is quite predictable, but those words are not the revelation that binds the body of Christ together as one. Indeed, they tend to do the opposite - lending themselves to egotistical divisiveness and spellcasting.

No, but the revelation to the Church comes through the words of scripture, and through the authority granted to the Church by Christ to carry on in his name.

It is not the words that bind. But the words point us to the revelation that does.

 

[sojourner]

Too many have tried to replace the Holy Spirit with the clergy in the church. Jesus gave us the Spirit to be our COUNSELOR and to open up God's will to us.

As the church collectively listens to the Spirit and DOES what it tells us to, we naturally grow closer together.

When (and why) did this become a clergy issue? The clergy are not at issue here. the Church has always had spiritual leaders. Even Jesus was a rabbi...

 

[doppelganger]

the revelation to the Church comes through the words of scripture, and through the authority granted to the Church by Christ to carry on in his name.

You already have to have the revelation from the Spirit to get anything out of "scripture" (else you don't know what you are reading). The words of men and the authority of their institutions is far less than a substitute for the Holy Spirit. Exegesis cannot bring one into the Mystery because the Mystery does not - and indeed cannot - dwell in the words of men.

 

[sojourner]

You already have to have the revelation from the Spirit to get anything out of "scripture" (else you don't know what you are reading). The words of men and the authority of their institutions is far less than a substitute for the Holy Spirit. Exegesis cannot bring one into the Mystery because the Mystery does not - and indeed cannot - dwell in the words of men.

The words point us to, or clarify in our understanding, those mysteries. The spiritual work of the Body of Christ (which is carried on by authority of Christ) does not seek to substitute the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is inseparably abiding in the Church (which is the people of God). Since the real power comes when we abide in community, it is the Church -- the community of the faithful -- that is the revelation of the Spirit -- not a substitute for it.

 

[doppelganger]

The words point us to, or clarify in our understanding, those mysteries.

One has to know what the Spirit sounds like to hear the Spirit through the noise of human words. Rather, human words obscure the Spirit, drown out the quiet voice by which the Spirit speaks, washing away love and human connection in the bluster and ego of word casting.

The spiritual work of the Body of Christ (which is carried on by authority of Christ) does not seek to substitute the Holy Spirit.

I agree with everything but the parenthetical, the inclusion of which turns your statement into an oxymoron.

Since the real power comes when we abide in community, it is the Church -- the community of the faithful -- that is the revelation of the Spirit -- not a substitute for it.

I know the Spirit by its fruit. And no human social institution, not even one among the thousands who call themselves "the Church" by virtue of their proclaimed authority to speak for God, bears the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[Scuba Pete]

No, but the revelation to the Church comes through the words of scripture, and through the authority granted to the Church by Christ to carry on in his name.

You have yet to provide any scriptural references here. Simply amazing.

But here, try this one:

Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. NIV

I Corinthians 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. NIV

It is not the words that bind. But the words point us to the revelation that does.

No, legalists bind us with their words and their interpretations of words.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. NIV

 

[sojourner]

One has to know what the Spirit sounds like to hear the Spirit through the noise of human words. Rather, human words obscure the Spirit, drown out the quiet voice by which the Spirit speaks, washing away love and human connection in the bluster and ego of word casting.

I agree with everything but the parenthetical, the inclusion of which turns your statement into an oxymoron.

I know the Spirit by its fruit. And no human social institution, not even one among the thousands who call themselves "the Church" by virtue of their proclaimed authority to speak for God, bears the fruits of the Spirit.

I disagree. Words can, and often do obscure the Spirit -- but not always. In fact, you are communicating through words when you tell me about your experience of Spirit. Words can and do inform us of Spirit. In fact, it was probably words by which you came to know that the still, small voice you were hearing was the Spirit, and not dimentia.

If we do not act by authority of Christ, we cannot be the Body of Christ.

And yet, you do not know the Church, nor do you abide in community, nor do you recognize the Spirit at work within that community. Interesting.

 

[sojourner]

You have yet to provide any scriptural references here. Simply amazing.

But here, try this one:

Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. NIV

I Corinthians 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. NIV

No, legalists bind us with their words and their interpretations of words.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. NIV

Could you enlighten us as to just what this has to do with anything I said?