Divination and monotheistic religions

[keithnurse]

I know that using tools of divination to discern the will of a god is generally condemned in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahaism and Zoroastrianism, but have found some exceptions to this and was wondering what you think about this. In Acts 1:21-26 The apostles met after Judas Iscariot killed himself and decided to select a replacement for him. They picked two people, Joseph called Barsabas, and Matthias. Then they prayed and asked God to show them which of those two men God had chosen to take Judas' place. Then they cast lots and the lot fell on Matthias, so they added Matthias to the 11 apostles, making it 12 apostles again. This example of "casting lots" is, by definition, divination. Since the original apostles used a divinatory tool to discern gods will, how can divination be condemned by modern Christians? How do the other monotheistic religions see this?

 

[Qwert12345]

I know that using tools of divination to discern the will of a god is generally condemned in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahaism and Zoroastrianism, but have found some exceptions to this and was wondering what you think about this. In Acts 1:21-26 The apostles met after Judas Iscariot killed himself and decided to select a replacement for him. They picked two people, Joseph called Barsabas, and Matthias. Then they prayed and asked God to show them which of those two men God had chosen to take Judas' place. Then they cast lots and the lot fell on Matthias, so they added Matthias to the 11 apostles, making it 12 apostles again. This example of "casting lots" is, by definition, divination. Since the original apostles used a divinatory tool to discern gods will, how can divination be condemned by modern Christians? How do the other monotheistic religions see this?

somebody got some 'splaining to do!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

All I know is that any religion which doesn't include throwing bones or reading entrails isn't worth its salt.

 

[smitten508]

The reason that divination is taught against now comes largely from the OT prohibition. However, I believe that if you read it in context you'll realize that its really about the idolic gods associated with the divination. Not the practice itself...

 

[keithnurse]

The reason that divination is taught against now comes largely from the OT prohibition. However, I believe that if you read it in context you'll realize that its really about the idolic gods associated with the divination. Not the practice itself...

I agree that it is about separating the ancient Hebrews from the gods/goddesses of neighboring ethnic groups. I don't think those gods are any more idols than Yahweh.

 

[sojourner]

I know that using tools of divination to discern the will of a god is generally condemned in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahaism and Zoroastrianism, but have found some exceptions to this and was wondering what you think about this. In Acts 1:21-26 The apostles met after Judas Iscariot killed himself and decided to select a replacement for him. They picked two people, Joseph called Barsabas, and Matthias. Then they prayed and asked God to show them which of those two men God had chosen to take Judas' place. Then they cast lots and the lot fell on Matthias, so they added Matthias to the 11 apostles, making it 12 apostles again. This example of "casting lots" is, by definition, divination. Since the original apostles used a divinatory tool to discern gods will, how can divination be condemned by modern Christians? How do the other monotheistic religions see this?

We'd have to see what "casting lots" entailed in the Acts account before we could answer that with any certainty.

 

[smitten508]

I agree that it is about separating the ancient Hebrews from the gods/goddesses of neighboring ethnic groups. I don't think those gods are any more idols than Yahweh.

I have to disagree with YHWH being an idol. YHWH never allowed an image to be made as representative of Himself. I think also that THAT is part of the whole shebang. The "old gods" started to become not so much divine as much as the actual statues that were representations of the divine forces at work... That makes sence right?lol

 

[keithnurse]

I have to disagree with YHWH being an idol. YHWH never allowed an image to be made as representative of Himself. I think also that THAT is part of the whole shebang. The "old gods" started to become not so much divine as much as the actual statues that were representations of the divine forces at work... That makes sence right?lol

I did not say YHWH is an idol. I said I don't think those other gods are idols just like YHWH is not an idol. BTW,Idolatry is not just worshipping statues or other painted or carved or graven images, but also confusing our words about god with god himself/herself.

 

[Dunemeister]

Even if this was a case of divination, it's noteworthy that the practice hasn't been repeated. So the apostles may have selected an apostle by divination, but for some reason, they stopped. So perhaps it's a mistake to see this passage as a warrant for Christians to perform divination.

But there's also a distinction to be made between predicting the future and discerning the will of God.

 

[blackout]

Asking gOd a question and opening the bible randomly for answer is a form of divination.

I recieved some mind blowing answers to varied questions that way.

(I realize that's not exactly what the OP was talking about)

 

[blackout]

Moses' staff was a tool of transformation/magick/miracle.

 

[blackout]

We'd have to see what "casting lots" entailed in the Acts account before we could answer that with any certainty.

Didn't they draw straws?
I think I read that in some translation a few years ago,
because I had the VERY same thought.
That they were divining.

 

[gnostic]

Isn't vision and prophecy are forms of divination?

Joseph seemed to have visions of his own, as well as being able to other people's dreams.

And many of the prophecy or visions given by prophets.

St Patrick tried to rid of divination in Ireland. I just see it simply as Christian hypocritical, double-standard craps.

 

[Willamena]

Moses' staff was a tool of transformation/magick/miracle.

...symbolism.

 

[blackout]

...symbolism.

Not if you take the story literally.

(I'm speaking to my audience)

 

[keithnurse]

I just found this interesting link: www.castinglots.com for a book titled "Casting Lots: an oracle of the Holy Spirit"
also: www.bibliomancy.org about divining by randomly opening a book and reading what is on the page.

 

[smitten508]

Opening a book and getting divine oracle ie divination is a tool that both Christians and non Christians have been using quite some time now. The Christian would NEVER call it divination, but a student of the occult would know it for what it is...