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Discussing the Garden of Eden.

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions DIR' started by Yahcubs777, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    It is written in Genesis 2:


    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

    22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    Let us focus on this passage in Genesis 2.

    In the passage, i have highlighted verses 21-24 to propose we look closer into them. Let us discuss this passage.

    Here is my question: According to this passage, GOD put Adam into a deep sleep, took a rib and made the woman, all while he was sleeping.

    How did the Man, Father Adam, not even show any level of suprise, or even ask where she came from? But the next was that he prophesied: This is now bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh...

    Then he even named her: She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    Then he said again: For this cause shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    And no time in this recount, did Father Adam show any suprise that she was suddently there, nor did GOD tell him what he would do. Why didn't he ask her where she came from,or even who she is? Rather, he told her who she is, and where she came from.
     
  2. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    In the story, God told Adam that God would provide him a helper. Adam names all the creatures that God made, inspecting each one, and still was without a helper. When Adam told this to God, God caused him to go to sleep and formed the woman.

    Maybe Adam was not surprised because of the conversation immediately preceding the event.
     
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  3. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    But that was not directed to Adam at all.

    This is a narrative given by Moses, or the writer of Genesis.

    And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
     
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    You may be right. :) However, starting at verse 16, God says 3 things to Adam. One of those things is, I will make a helper for him.
     
  5. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Nope not at all. He stops after saying thou shall not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.

    That is where HE stopped addressing Adam. He didn't say: I will make you a help meet for you. He said him, as if he is talking to someone else.

    Then Father Adam even told Mother Eve where she came from, though he was in a deep sleep, and even told her what her name is.
     
  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Him...

    I never noticed that before. Interesting detail... thanks
     
  7. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    you are welcome.
     
  8. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    What do you think about verse 20? To me, this verse says that Adam was looking for a helper.
     
  9. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    This is narration again. Adam isn't requesting a helper.

    And then if we go on that subject, in what way according to what was written, was she a help meet for him at all?
     
  10. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    It's a symbolic story, not a novel.
     
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  11. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Agreed, Adam didn't request it, but, he was looking for one and didn't find it.
    Genesis 1:28? She helped Adam to be... fruitful... Kind of ironic word-play considering what happens in chapter 3.
     
  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I don't think it's intention is for you to be reading it literally. It's kind of like asking someone to explain a joke to you. You sort of miss the point of the story, if you hack it to pieces with the analytical mind. ;)
     
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  13. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Not at all. Rather, i believe this is a real event. So when i look into that event as it was written, it doesn't add up.
     
  14. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Where does it say he was looking? It says there was not found a help meet for him. This is clearly narration imo.

    We are speaking about the GOD who said this. This is the GOD that is all knowing. Therefore, HE cannot say anything that is not true. Here HE said that Mother Eve was a help for Adam, but as you read genesis further, you read only things that say the opposite of that. I believe that GOD is telling the truth, so how was she a good help for him?
     
  15. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    "How was she a good help for him?"

    She helped him to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth?
     
  16. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    The fact that "it doesn't add up" is what tells you it is not a literal event. The early church fathers appreciated this and so did the church in general, up to the time of the Reformation.

    It is an allegorical story, that conveys the message of why Man and Woman are inseparable and their natural state is to be together and to have sex together and that, importantly, the natural urge for this is part of God's creative plan.

    That's the point, not whether or not God literally took a rib from Adam in his sleep, which is an obvious nonsense from what we know of how sexes arose in nature.

    This story is actually very important, because it makes clear that those who think sexual activity was somehow involved in the Fall have got it wrong and are projecting their unhealthy views on sex onto the story.
     
  17. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    To me, its a real event; as real as any event that has taken place.
     
  18. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

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    Before the fall? she was supposed to be a help for him. Are you saying the fall was where she was a help? Is it not written that she brought the fall?
     
  19. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Then you are deliberately saddling yourself with a load of beliefs that are full of irreconcilable contradictions - as you are starting to find out.

    No one will be able to help you with that.
     
  20. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    "Are you saying the fall was where she was a help?"

    It's possible. What would happen if death did not exist and people multiplied and filled the earth? If eating the fruit, introduced death then it could be good. It helps Adam fullfill the commandment to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth without over populating it. The commandment without death would only be possible temporarily. The commandment with death is possible eternally.

    All this assumes that being "fruitful" is the same as procreation, though. It could also mean something else. Fruit doesn't last forever. It ripens, falls to the ground, rots, and leaves its seed behind. How is that possible without death?
     
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