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Didn't want it to be real

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Bishka

Veteran Member
jamaesi said:
The next guy doesn't matter to me. It just disturbs me how people can just shove people away who they love instead of trying to be supportive.

That's life, there are children who get kicked out of their home for being a different religion. It's not the same, but similar. In fact, I've known 18-year old's that were asked to leave their home immediatley after they got baptized into the LDS Church. Their parents completley cut them off and never even talked to them after that. Like I said, it's not the same, but slightly similar.

This happens all over the world to a varying kind of people. Yes, it's heartless and cruel, but what can we do, fix the world? Force the parents to accept their children?
 

almifkhar

Active Member
jam

i didn't really think i would have to sit down and explain it to you.

it comes down to this who is the parent and who is the child?

let me tell you something speaking as a parent if any of my children were say married and cheated on their spouse, i don't care how old they were, not only would i cuss them out but i would smack them upside their head while i was at it because this is NOT how i raised them to act.

who says a parent has to be supportave when a child is not living the way they were raised to become? especially when mom/dad is paying all the bills? let me tell you something, the best thing my mom could have ever done was to put me out. these were her excat words, "you wanta act grown then go and be grown" and thats what i did. who cares the reasons why, it was the best learning experience she ever gave me.

while my kids are living under my roof, they are gona dance my tune, and if they don't want to dance to my tune than they can move on cause i don't keep anyone who don't want to be kept. further, i will be damned if any of my kids think for one minunte they are gona buck up to me and tell me what they are and are not going to do while living under my roof. i don't care how old they are either, rules are rules and i am the queen and sovern ruler in this household. this is not a democracy, nor will it ever be.

take my 14 year old son for an example. he is starting to notice the girls, and got courious about sex one day with his buddies and decided to check out a porn site. well the queen knows all that goes on in her house and went off. yep i smacked him for disrespecting me by doing this, and the next day we sat down and had a talk. i let him know why his approach was wrong (you know with porn and sex slavery issues) and that if he felt uncomfortable talking to me about sex than to find a respectable man to talk about with. he knows a guy who has taken him under his wing who fits this profile. but rest assured i left him with one final thought, and that was this, i would not tolerate him to ever behave like this and he would be put out if it ever happens again. why? because i want him to be with a quality woman, and lets be honest, when you run around, one meats many who are not quality and i don't want to see him end up getting a lowlife pregnant and repeating my mistakes. i want for him to heed my warnings so he doesn't have to learn life the way i did, the hard way. this is why a parent would be willing to put their child out, to teach them a lesson.

life is cold and cruel, parents know this but children have not yet learned this lesson, when they start acting grown too soon and if parents coddle and "support" then they will never learn the lesson and will instead 20 years later point the finger about their woes in life instead of taking responisibility for their own lives.

in short, the realistic approach is the best parenting ever. so far it is working for my 14 year old for he is nothing like what i was like at his age.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
That's life, there are children who get kicked out of their home for being a different religion. It's not the same, but similar. In fact, I've known 18-year old's that were asked to leave their home immediatley after they got baptized into the LDS Church. Their parents completley cut them off and never even talked to them after that. Like I said, it's not the same, but slightly similar.

And I find that just as terrible as being kicked out for ones sexuality.


This happens all over the world to a varying kind of people. Yes, it's heartless and cruel, but what can we do, fix the world? Force the parents to accept their children?

Are you saying it can't be done? ;)
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
While I agree with you, Flappycat, that most of the famous people you list in your OP are immoral in their attacks on homosexuals and/or homosexuality, it has been far from my experience that every conservative is crazy enough to throw a kid out of his home for being a homosexual. In fact, I doubt most conservatives would place homosexuality above their responsibility to and love for their child.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Well, here's my 2 cents.

I agree that the parents are allowed to make the rules for their own home, according to their own standards and beliefs. On the other hand, not all rules are good rules, and there are times in our lives when as human beings we're obliged to break the rules because we believe they're wrong. This often happens with young people because they're at that stage in their lives where they're trying to figure out what's right and what's not for themselves, and they need to follow their own mind to do that. They not only will break the rules and make mistakes, but they NEED to break the rules and to make mistakes, to learn. So any parent that thinks he/she can lay down the rules and expect their teenage children to always follow them is an idiot.

My other point is that it's interesting, here, that so many of the comments seem to imply that there is only one right way to respond to such a circumstance. But there isn't. We each can think about what we believe would be the correct responce to our child's homosexuality, and that's good, but we're all different people, and we're all going to have to respond a little differently in real life to something like this because we are all different.

I guess my point is that the parents are in a learning process, too. And just as the kid had to make his choices and deal with the consequences, so do the parents. If, as a an individual and as a parent, I'm going to participate in religiously based sexual bigotry, then I'm going to have to pay the consequences for that decision if my child should end up being homosexual. I may lose my relationship with my child because of my choices. My child may end up dead to suicide or homelessness because I chose my sexual bigotry over their well-being. This sort of thing happens in the real world.

No matter who we are, there are consequences for the choices we make. And we'll all make some wrong choices. That's inevitable. So we can either learn to be forgiving toward each other when we and other people make what we believe to be wrong choices, and when the choices of other people cause us harm, or we can end up living all alone in our own hatred, resentment, and stubborn self-righteousness.

The choice is ours, as usual.

As to the comments for and against conservative Christianity and it's role in this particular scenario, I can certainly understand the sentiments. People like Falwell make a handsome living preaching hate and bigotry in Jesus' name. Justifying hatred for people who have hate in their hearts and don't want to give it up will always be profitable. But in the end every bigot is his own responsibility. People like Falwell don't get a dime from anyone against their will. He's really just a parasite, feeding off the hatred and bigotry that already exists in people, by telling them it's OK to be that way, and that God is a bigot, too.

So the real responsibility lies with each of us as individuals. Sexual and religious bigotry continue to exist because of us, not because of Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson or any of the other professional hate-mongers out there. And only we can put a stop to it. The moment we're willing to let go of such hatred and bigotry within ourselves, the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons will vanish. Christianity didn't create them, our own ignorance and prejudice did. And when we're willing to let go of our ignorance and prejudice, they will vanish, while Christianity will remain.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
almifkhar said:
you know flappy, i gota tell something as a parent. if any of my three children or my husbands 6 children don't follow my rules, out the door they will be heading. that's the way it is. if this is her rule than he should have respected her wishes, or at the very least been a little smarter about what he was doing. if he is a teen, than he has no business messing around anyway. with boys or girls. if he's gay and he knows ma ma don't like it, than he should have waited to let her know when he had his own domain, for this would have been the smart thing to do. i'm not saying he has to change his lifestyle or anything like that, all i am saying is that he knew mom would go off about this. i think you should be thankful that this didn't happen 80+ years ago for she would have probably killed him and gotten away with it.

if any of my three children or my husbands 6 children don't follow my rules, out the door they will be heading
All I can say is "I am glad that I am neither your husband, nor one of your children.":rolleyes:
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
almifkhar said:
you know flappy, i gota tell something as a parent. if any of my three children or my husbands 6 children don't follow my rules, out the door they will be heading. that's the way it is. if this is her rule than he should have respected her wishes, or at the very least been a little smarter about what he was doing. if he is a teen, than he has no business messing around anyway. with boys or girls. if he's gay and he knows ma ma don't like it, than he should have waited to let her know when he had his own domain, for this would have been the smart thing to do. i'm not saying he has to change his lifestyle or anything like that, all i am saying is that he knew mom would go off about this. i think you should be thankful that this didn't happen 80+ years ago for she would have probably killed him and gotten away with it.

surely parenting is a two way thing?

yes, the child should always respect the parent, but parents can be damn unreasonable at times :149:

Flappy, i completely sympathise with the situation, it is very similar to my own situation, though my parents would not kick me out....

my situation is that my aunt is Catholic, very devout, and while my parents are not really all that religious, they had a christian upbringing, and all spiritual advice they take from my aunt - my aunt has a lot of manipulative control on my family, anyone who thinks for themselves is alienated from the wider family through her social actions.... it's at the point where i argue with my aunt but my mum and dad are the messagers, and it is tearing my family apart! most of my family just let my aunt push them around, but i refuse to disclaim paganism and i refuse to change my orientation - i don't know what would happen if i told any family who my aunt has not allowed me to tell, i think if i did, i would be kicked out....

it really does suck, i'm damned if i do, and i'm damned if i don't - and in my oppinion, conservative Islam, Judaism, Christianity, conservative ideology in general makes gay peoples live a lot harder.

Sunstone said:
While I agree with you, Flappycat, that most of the famous people you list in your OP are immoral in their attacks on homosexuals and/or homosexuality, it has been far from my experience that every conservative is crazy enough to throw a kid out of his home for being a homosexual. In fact, I doubt most conservatives would place homosexuality above their responsibility to and love for their child.
true, but it goes a lot further than that.

many parents accept that their gay child is still their child, who they love, and want to carry on caring for that child, but the relationship between parents and child in those situations is very often completely destroyed when the child first comes out, and although they are allowed to live at home still, there are still a lot of fierce, unwarranted, judgemental, prejudice confrontations that make living at home hell
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
jamaesi said:
How does one "shape up" from homosexuality?

They don't, what I meant is, they shape up about following their parents rules or they probably will be kicked out. If their parents do not want him having sex with another man, then he should follow those rules until he can find another place to stay.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
IMHO, it is the very definition of "foolishness" to allow family affection and love to be damaged by arguments over a member's sexual orientation or religion.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Sunstone said:
IMHO, it is the very definition of "foolishness" to allow family affection and love to be damaged by arguments over a member's sexual orientation or religion.

Phil,

I agree totally with you, but some parents have rules that they expect to be obeyed. Unfortunatley, if you break them, you may not have a home or family anymore.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
well its not that he can change his sexual orientation, but he also doesn't have to post stickers around the house exclaiming his sexuality. I dont run around telling people i'm a hetero. NOT saying that the man in this situation does that sort of thing. Mostly I'm just trying to say that he can be gay and not have to advertise it. I dont see what's wrong with not discussing sexual orientation. I dont talk about my preferences with my parents. He could just be respectful and not have other men over to the house, and not bring it up. I know that it's painful for him now, but when he lives on his own he can have anyone over, and do whatever he wants and say whatever he wants with no worry. I dont see what's wrong with waiting to do just that. Personally I'd feel a bit odd about having sex at my parent's house.

Again, my mother wouldn't care if i were gay or straight. She has told me that it doesn't matter. I'm still her daughter and she loves me. I imagine that if this boy doesn't have that sort of support he is less inclined to follow their rules.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
beckysoup61 said:
Phil,

I agree totally with you, but some parents have rules that they expect to be obeyed. Unfortunatley, if you break them, you may not have a home or family anymore.

I confess that I don't see it as right that a family should be divided over religion or sexual orientation. Call me idealistic, but I believe that family bonds of love and affection should trump both religion and sexual orientation. That's just my own values, however, and I recognize others may disgree with me.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Sunstone said:
I confess that I don't see it as right that a family should be divided over religion or sexual orientation. Call me idealistic, but I believe that family bonds of love and affection should trump both religion and sexual orientation. That's just my own values, however, and I recognize others may disgree with me.

I understand that. What I'm saying is that there are families out there that expect those things to happen.

For me, if you've read any of my past posts, you will see that I would NEVER kick my children out, EVER.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Sunstone said:
I confess that I don't see it as right that a family should be divided over religion or sexual orientation. Call me idealistic, but I believe that family bonds of love and affection should trump both religion and sexual orientation. That's just my own values, however, and I recognize others may disgree with me.

a lot of people agree with these values on the surface, but then go against them when the situation is closer to home...
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Mike182 said:
a lot of people agree with these values on the surface, but then go against them when the situation is closer to home...

They are reacting in the moment, are they not?
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Buttons* said:
well its not that he can change his sexual orientation, but he also doesn't have to post stickers around the house exclaiming his sexuality. I dont run around telling people i'm a hetero. NOT saying that the man in this situation does that sort of thing. Mostly I'm just trying to say that he can be gay and not have to advertise it. I dont see what's wrong with not discussing sexual orientation. I dont talk about my preferences with my parents. He could just be respectful and not have other men over to the house, and not bring it up.

although i can see how this would solve a lot of the problems, is it not the general assumption that someone is straight unless otherwise stated

in which case, the general agreement is that you are hetrosexual - it is already identified, for you the identification is correct, for me, the identification is false, am i flaunting my sexuality be correcting that assumption?
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Mike182 said:
yes, initially, but the reaction can stay the same for a long period of time after...


Don't I know it. I see it constantly with my mother and grandmother. Although it was not over sexuality, it was something similar, religion.

My mother converted from the Church of the Nazerene. Everytime I see my grandmother alone, she will make a disparaging remark about the Church, anti-LDS statements and the like. It's very hard for my mother, even though she's been out of the house for years.

It's not exactly the same, but I think I can sort of understand where you are coming from.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Mike182 said:
am i flaunting my sexuality be correcting that assumption?
Well i dont see how your sexuality would ever be the topic of dicsussion. My mother doesn't often talk about the fact that I am straight... so there is no need to correct her.
 
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