Did Judas do God's will?

[Jeremy Mason]

A few things to consider:

How come, Judas did not change even when he was in the pesence of Jesus everyday?

What Judas did was considered to be betrayal. It implies that there was a certain confidence in him which he did not live up to.

Jesus was not blind to the condition of Judas's heart, so then why would he consider it as betrayal?

My best guess is that as free agents, we get to call the shots. God may know what our final decisions are going to be, but we must act first. If that were not the case, then free will would not exist. It would be like God writing a computer program that said, "God is great" over and over again. But in the end, God would realize it was not us really saying it. Love is a two way street and we as his creation are what gives him glory by our own choosing.

One day, I hope to find my wife. But she can only be my wife if she chooses to be so and that there is the essence of this give and take that fosters love.

Judas may have had good intentions for Jesus, but I heard, (maybe in this thread) that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Judas made his own bed and now he's sleeping in it.

 

[lilithu]

The passion story was a made up story, Judas betraying the the suppsed Jesus was I guess a needed element in that story.

None of the disciples existed, just like Jesus, just a story invented by bishops of the early literalist church to create a real Jesus to gain believers.

Fine, you guys think it was just a story, we get it. So when someone posts a thread asking whether Dumbledore really intended for Harry to die in the end, you guys feel compelled to jump in and point out to everyone that it was a "made up story", right?

 

[lilithu]

We all have freewill, including Judas, but without him betraying Jesus to the HIgh Priests then Jesus wouldn't have died for our sins. I guess my question is, was Judas doing God's will? Was he born for that specific reason? Keep in mind, I understand we all have freewill and he could have chose not to turn on Jesus. But, without his actions, the crucifixtion wouldn't have taken place. Just a thought.

I asked my junior high religion teacher that same question. I couldn't understand how Judas could be condemned to hell for all eternity for doing the thing that was necessary to save all of us. And my religion teacher just told me that I didn't have enough faith, kinda suggesting in front of the whole rest of the class that I was going to hell. That scared me too much to pursue the questioning, but it was the beginning of the end in terms of me believing what she taught us.

Then, when I saw Jesus Christ Superstar, and saw at the end when Judas descended onto the stage from above dressed in white, I knew I wasn't the only one.

I no longer believe in substitutionary atonement now, so the point is moot for me. But I do agree this poses a dilemma if you do.

 

[Heneni]

Judas excercised his free will to follow Jesus, to become his disciple, he wasnt forced to do such. Jesus choose Judas to be a disciple because Judas would follow him, but for the wrong reasons.

Judas was chosen to be a disciple to show that you can be in the presence of God dialy and still have iniquity in you. Like Satan who was in the presence of god daily but then iniquity was found in him.

God created all his being with the ability to turn against him if they so wish, to demonstrate that his kingdom is built on love, love for Him, and not power, the fear of him.

Judas was a nasty person inside. He did not change even though he was in the holy presence of Jesus every single day. The reason for this was that Judas' heart was not in love with God but in love with money. And you cant serve both even though it might look like you serve christ, you could be serving yourself.

Judas was a perfect example of how god can use evil to bring about good.

Satan knew that the crucifixtion of Jesus would mean the end of him, so he did not enter Judas to help him get Jesus crucified, he entered him to stop him from doing things that will result in the crucifiction of Jesus. Judas from the intent and motives of his own heart, wanted money, but that same thing would result in the crucifiction of Jesus, and satan didnt want that.

So I believe Satan entered Judas to stop him from being the agent of Satans own demise. Judas had to be possessed by satan so that satan could attempt to override the will of Judas.

But the evil in Judas's heart was enough to do what he did in the end, and satan could not stop it. Satan 'helped' Judas commit suicide. It should have looked to the authorities that Judas now felt that he had done the wrong thing to betray Jesus and to think twice about crucifying Jesus. But what he felt was guilt over going against the wishes of his own master. When Judas returned the money, inspired by satan do do so, it backfired and they said they didnt care about that now...so the next step was to go and throw Judas of a 'building' to try and make a greater point, but that didnt work either.

So Satan made his bed in Judas' heart, and he now had to lie in it

Love
Heneni

 

[rheff78]

But, maybe he's not in hell. Maybe he's in pergatory hoping one day to get out. Just a thought.

 

[Heneni]

I guess we all have to ask ourselves if we would have acted differently. So many christians serve money not god.

And it is my opinion that those who serve a god that like a genie brings them all the wealth they name claim and frame, is actually batting for the others side. Satan happily providing such wealth in order to make you think you serve god.

Heneni

​

 

[Jeremy Mason]

But, maybe he's not in hell. Maybe he's in pergatory hoping one day to get out. Just a thought.

I doubt there is a purgatory.

 

[rheff78]

I doubt there is a purgatory.

ahhh, pergatory is crowded with doubters.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

ahhh, pergatory is crowded with doubters.

Perhaps you can help me. I tried looking in the NIVEC and could not find Purgatory anywhere. Seeings your Catholic, it might be in the four or so book not in the NIV. Can you reference this for me please?

 

[rheff78]

Perhaps you can help me. I tried looking in the NIVEC and could not find Purgatory anywhere. Seeings your Catholic, it might be in the four or so book not in the NIV. Can you reference this for me please?

alright, give me a little time.

 

[lockyfan]

But, maybe he's not in hell. Maybe he's in pergatory hoping one day to get out. Just a thought.

There is no such thing as hell or pergatory.

Jesus was sent to the earth to die anyway. If Judas had not have betrayed him, then someone else would have. the point about Judas doing Gods Will is moot, because of that fact.

Christ was going to die no matter what, that was one o his reasons for being on earth in the first place. the other was to start preaching the good news of Jehovahs Kingdom and to give all glory to God. No one else.

So christ came to earth, preached about the good news of Gods Kingdom (that the world we live in will be gotten rid of and a new one without satan to take its place (new ruler not a physical new earth)), made a new covenant in regards to Gods Kingdom and to die as a perfect man, thus ransoming his perfect life for the one Adam lost in the garden of eden.

So like I said, christ was going to die, it as one of the reasons (the main reason) he came to the earth in the first place. Whether Judas betrayed him or not, was Judas choice, his free will. He chose to betray him knowing full well that Jesus was the Messiah. He just chose the wrong course of action. that is all. Unfortunately for Judas though, he lost out on something better than he already had though.

 

[lilithu]

Perhaps you can help me. I tried looking in the NIVEC and could not find Purgatory anywhere. Seeings your Catholic, it might be in the four or so book not in the NIV. Can you reference this for me please?

alright, give me a little time.

Purgatory is not based on scripture. Its existence was postulated by Catholic theologians in order to reconcile the doctrine of hell with a just and loving God. They knew there were people (infants for example) who did not deserve to to burn for all eternity and yet were not "saved" for heaven. Hence, a third area, purgatory, was conceived of.

 

[lockyfan]

Purgatory is not based on scripture. Its existence was postulated by Catholic theologians in order to reconcile the doctrine of hell with a just and loving God. They knew there were people (infants for example) who did not deserve to to burn for all eternity and yet were not "saved" for heaven. Hence, a third area, purgatory, was conceived of.

Very true. So it is a man made idea, not that of Gods

 

[S-word]

This might belong in a different spot. But I've been struggling with this one for a while. As you can see, I'm Catholic, but I'm still not sure on this one. We all have freewill, including Judas, but without him betraying Jesus to the HIgh Priests then Jesus wouldn't have died for our sins. I guess my question is, was Judas doing God's will? Was he born for that specific reason? Keep in mind, I understand we all have freewill and he could have chose not to turn on Jesus. But, without his actions, the crucifixtion wouldn't have taken place. Just a thought.

Acts 2:23 "In accordance with his own plan God had already decided that Jesus would be handed over to you; and you killed him by letting sinful men crucify him.
If I were to mentally enter into the inner most sanctuary of my being, where all is one, where even time and space are joined, and there, If I were to merge with the mind of Judas, I would do everything in my power to strengthen his resolve and do that which had to be done.

But isn't this the whole purpose of the "Son of Man," the first born Son of God, the Light bearer, the Bright Morning Star, who descends to his beginning justifying all the sins of the body of Mankind in which he developed. Jesus, his obedient servant who came in his name "Who I Am," and who did nor spoke anything on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded, was the earthly image of our heavenly saviour.

It was for this reason, that he, the earthly image of the Light of Man or the spirit that had developed in the sinful mother body of mankind, had to be lifted up in the same manner that Moses lifted up the image of the serpent in the wilderness, in order that all those who were dying because of the venom of the serpent that was coursing through their veins, only had to turn their minds eye, to the image of the serpent who had been lifted up. Psalms 51:5,"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Knowing that Jesus spoke not one word of his own authority but the words he spoke were those of his father, (Between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise HIS heel.) who was it who cried out through the mouth of his obedent servant and earthly image? "Father! Give me glory in your presence now, the same glory I had with you before the world was made." John 17: 5.

 

[lockyfan]

Also when you look at Judas, he was an Apostle, but lost that priveledge upon his deception and betrayl of Jesus. FI he was meant to betray Jesus, he cowuld not have been chosen as an Apostle

 

[ἀλήθεια]

This might belong in a different spot. But I've been struggling with this one for a while. As you can see, I'm Catholic, but I'm still not sure on this one. We all have freewill, including Judas, but without him betraying Jesus to the HIgh Priests then Jesus wouldn't have died for our sins. I guess my question is, was Judas doing God's will? Was he born for that specific reason? Keep in mind, I understand we all have freewill and he could have chose not to turn on Jesus. But, without his actions, the crucifixtion wouldn't have taken place. Just a thought.

The crucifixion was planned from the beginning:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 12:8)


10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he
hardeneth.
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (Romans 9:10-20)

 

[lockyfan]

The crucifixtion was planned not from the VERY beginning, but from the beginning of sin on the earth.

The beginning of humans struggle to free ourselves from Satans jaws.

Gods purpose was for all humans to live happily on earth forever, that is still His purpose, satan just slurred His name and reputation and said basically that God was not fit to rule, so God allowed this challenge to play out and unfortunately we are right at the end of its time. We are in the last days of Satans system and things are only going to get worse before they get better.

Christs Crucifixtion was so that all humans will get the perfect life we were to have all along, so as we say A Perfect Life for a Perfect Life

 

[ἀλήθεια]

The crucifixtion was planned not from the VERY beginning, but from the beginning of sin on the earth.

No offense intended, but I disagree.

1 Peter 1:19-21
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[lockyfan]

What that scripture is saying is this. That Jesus was in existance before the foundation of the world, actually in Proverbs chapter 8 we find out that through him everything else bar himself is created. So what this scripture is saying is that he was alive before the world was founded, but he was made manifest or Human for our sake, as a ransom sacrifice so that we humans can attain the perfection that Adam and Eve lost and was Jehovahs purpose for humans all along. Also that we have the hope in the ressrection of our dead loved ones at the end of this system and then so that we humans can have faith and Hope in Gods purpose and that we Glorify God like Jesus did.

 

[S-word]

What that scripture is saying is this. That Jesus was in existance before the foundation of the world, actually in Proverbs chapter 8 we find out that through him everything else bar himself is created. So what this scripture is saying is that he was alive before the world was founded, but he was made manifest or Human for our sake, as a ransom sacrifice so that we humans can attain the perfection that Adam and Eve lost and was Jehovahs purpose for humans all along. Also that we have the hope in the ressrection of our dead loved ones at the end of this system and then so that we humans can have faith and Hope in Gods purpose and that we Glorify God like Jesus did.

Jesus was a man like all of us, he was born of two human parents, and was the first fruits to be redeemed from the dead past of the Son of Man who, after ascending to the ends of time, descended into his dead past to give to his chosen ones, his immortal life, as he cannot die.

Jesus was the first of many brothers to have been chosen as heirs to the throne of Godhead. Acts 3:13 For the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our ancestors who gave as his name to Moses,"Who I Am," has given divine glory to his servant Jesus. This he did by placing him in his heavenly throne as the cornerstone to the new Temple of Godhead, in which he will dwell on earth.

The Kingdom of the Most High is within you, for Mankind is currently the Tabernacle of God wherein he, the Godhead, dwells within the inner most sanctuary of every descendant of Noah, in who the indwelling father spirit is that of the only man to have been redeemed from the old world that was destroyed by water, who passed over into this world which is destined to burn up and fall as Massive columns of fire beyound all measure in height and depth into the great Abyss that is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

I tell you a sacred secret, we shall not all fall asleep in death, but, at the sound of the last trumpet, we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter into glorious bodies of brilliant and uncorruptible light.
All who receive a share of the hidden Manna, a small piece of the immortal body of the Most High, will be gathered to the cornerstone of the new and glorious Temple of the most high, the new Kingdom of God on earth, the Son of Man which is the next stage in the eternal growth or evolution of the mind that is God. The brilliant and more glorious Light Temple of God, which will dwell on earth among mankind.

Acts 17: 3, "For he, (The Most High) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.