Did Jesus say he was God???

[BornAgain]

Therefore, you are saying that the Lord Jesus Christ is just an angel of God. A creation of God.

That is correct. The Highest of the Celestial Divine beings, the firstborn created Being, who was the instrument of which all other creation was made through. Wisdom incarnated, the Logos of Philo in the flesh.

WHY WOULD PAUL WRITE THIS TO THE COLOSSIANS “AND DON‘T LET ANYONE SAY YOU MUST WORSHIP ANGELS” IF CHRIST WAS JUST AN ANGEL OF GOD.?

Col 2:18 NLT- Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on self-denial. And don’t let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this. These people claim to be so humble, but their sinful minds have made them proud.

AND IN,

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

GOD COMMANDING ALL ANGELS TO WORSHIP CHRIST?

ACCORDING TO SHERMANA CHRIST WAS JUST AN ANGEL OR CREATION OF God, AND IF God COMMANDED THE ANGELS TO WORSHIP THEIR FELLOW ANGEL/Christ -ACCORDING TO SHERMANA AGAIN- THEN God WAS TEACHING IDOLATRY HERE, OR SHERMANA IS THE ONE TEACHING IDOLATRY HERE.

WHO WOULD YOU BELIEVE? THE ALMIGHTY God, THE MAKER OF EVERYTHING OR SHERMANA WITH HIS DELUSIONAL ANGELS’ THEORY?

“Many Jews had a superstitious or idolatrous respect for angels” Matthew Henry.
ONE OF THEM IS SHERMANA WITH HIS DELUSIONAL ANGELS’ THEORY.

I THOUGHT ANGELS DO NOT WORSHIP ANOTHER ANGELS BUT God ONLY,

Isa 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

3 HOLIES???

AND IF God COMMANDED THE ANGELS TO WORSHIP Christ, THEN Christ MUST BE God.

Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Jn 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

ISAIAH SAW THE GLORY OF God, AND THE APOSTLE John SAW THIS SAME GLORY IN Christ.

THIS IS PERHAPS THE REASON WHY THE AUTHOR WROTE THE FOLLOWING VERSES,

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

LET ME GUESS: Paul, THE AUTHOR OF HEBREWS, AND THE APOSTLE John ARE ALL WRONG AND SHERMANA IS RIGHT.

HOWEVER, THE QUESTION IS, WHO IS SHERMANA WITH HIS DELUSIONAL ANGELS’ THEORY COMPARE TO Paul, THE AUTHOR OF HEBREWS, AND THE APOSTLE JOHN?

NO WONDER WHY SHERMANA SAID THIS,

“I definitely want to add to my list of things to do before I leave this lifetime to kill the widespread Hebrews 1:8 canard dead among many other verses.”

“CANARD DEAD AMONG MANY OTHER VERSES”

SHERMANA, A MERE MORTAL MAN WANTED SO MUCH TO SUPPRESS THE VERY WORD OF God BEFORE HE LEAVES THIS LIFETIME.

SPEAKING OF BEING ARROGANT, THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT CHRISTIANITY.

I 100% agree that "Christianity" in its standard Orthodox mainstream form is extremely arrogant, presumptious, and feeds off of a sense of entitlement, complacency, and disregard for logic and common sense in favor of a feel-good mentality that is completely devoid of any of its base foundation and context, going off of interpretations that not even the original Church Fathers went by, and they were off as it was.

IF YOU READ HEBREWS CHAPTER 1, AND YOU COMPARE IT TO SHERMANA’S DELUSIONAL THEORY ABOUT ANGELS, YOU WILL SEE THE TRUTH.

REVEALED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE TRUTH IS NOT ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE OF THIS KNOWLEDGE IS.

 

[Shermana]

And don’t let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this.

He's talking about Fallen Angels. Abraham worshiped Angels. Moses and Joshua worshiped an Angel. Do you even know what "worship" means? Sigh, this will be the 1000th time on this thread I'll have to explain this. I wish every Trinitarian could see how each and every argument they think they are freshly pulling has been soundly debunked, but there's a reason there's 600+ pages on this thread: Repeat, repeat, repeat.

GOD COMMANDING ALL ANGELS TO WORSHIP CHRIST?

That is correct. But since you have absolutely no idea about what "worship" means or that other beings have in fact worshiped Angels before and you don't understand what Colossians is talking about, I can see why this concept may confuse you. The idea is actually quite similar to its parallel in Islam of God requiring the Angels to bow down to Adam. Worship means to bow down. The Angels worship Christ as the greatest of the Angels, and in doing so, they serve and honor THE God.

THIS IS PERHAPS THE REASON WHY THE AUTHOR WROTE THE FOLLOWING VERSES,

This is a perfect example, I showed you precisely how Hebrews 1:8 should not say what all the Mainstream Translations say, and you simply repeat yourself, without actually counter-arguing how I proved you wrong about the use of the article and how they shadily try to make it the Vocative in almost all cases.

IF YOU READ HEBREWS CHAPTER 1, AND YOU COMPARE IT TO SHERMANA’S DELUSIONAL THEORY ABOUT ANGELS, YOU WILL SEE THE TRUTH.

Yes, and if you read Psalm 45, you'll see how the Trinitarian translators have been deliberately, most deviously mistranslating what Paul said to conform it to their Theology, for most of history. It's one of the most glaring examples of the utterly despicable dishonesty among Trinitarian authorities. Seriously. Not to mention that of those who defend such translations especially when shown the grammatical reality.

Unfortunately Matthew Henry had an absolutely horrible understanding of ancient Israelite Theology (Not to mention early Christian) , I would not use him as an objective source on this matter as if he's automatically right. Especially when you refuse to acknowledge the sources I bring up from scholars and Rabbis who DO specialize in it.

SHERMANA, A MERE MORTAL MAN WANTED SO MUCH TO SUPPRESS THE VERY WORD OF God BEFORE HE LEAVES THIS LIFETIME.

Why do you keep refusing my offer to take the bet to let God show which of us is trying to suppress the truth here?

REVEALED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE TRUTH IS NOT ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE OF THIS KNOWLEDGE IS.

You're a perfect example in the latter case.

So let me know when you've actually disproved what I said as you keep repeating your claim that you did.

 

[captainbryce]

"I am God"
Jesus

Is a scripture to be found NOWHERE in the bible.

 

[BornAgain]

Abraham worshiped Angels. Moses and Joshua worshiped an Angel. Do you even know what "worship" means? Sigh, this will be the 1000th time on this thread I'll have to explain this. I wish every Trinitarian could see how each and every argument they think they are freshly pulling has been soundly debunked, but there's a reason there's 600+ pages on this thread: Repeat, repeat, repeat.

The angel of the Lord, -in the O.T. and N.T.- were worshipped, by human of course, only when they are present, or were bringing messages from God to human, and nowhere in the bible did it say, that angels were to be worship on a daily basis like God.

THEY ARE NOT LIKE YOU!

YOU WORSHIPPED ANGELS EVERY MINUTE, BECAUSE THAT IS YOUR RELIGION, ESSENISM.

DO YOU WORSHIP THE LORD JESUS CHRIST?

 

[BornAgain]

He's talking about Fallen Angels.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE?

HERETICS, LIKE YOU, WERE TEACHING THE COLOSSIANS TO WORSHIP ANGELS INSTEAD OF CHRIST. THESE HERETICS, LIKE YOU, STILL BELIEVED THAT ANGELS WERE THE TRUE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN AND NOT CHRIST.

Many Jews had a superstitious or idolatrous respect for angels, because they had received the law and other tidings of the Divine will by their ministry. They looked upon them as mediators between God and men, and some went so far as to pay them a kind of religious homage or worship.

PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT YOU AND YOUR DELUSIONAL ANGEL’S THEORY.

SINCE YOU ARE NOT AN ANGEL, OR FALLEN ANGEL, OR IF YOU ARE, THEN YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN.

 

[BornAgain]

the angels worship christ as the greatest of the angels, and in doing so, they serve and honor the god.

Prove it from the scriptures, from the Masoretic text, from the Tanach, from the Torah, from the Midrash Interpretations, from the LXX or Septuagint, or anything written, bring it out in the open so that this RELIGIOUS FORUM READERS can read it, as i brought it out in the open from the scriptures that Christ is truly God and not just an angel of God.

Prove your case here in RF.

Revealed knowledge about the truth is not arrogance, ignorance of this knowledge is.

 

[BornAgain]

You still haven't presented and a single bible verse where Jesus says "I am God".

Philomath (Greek, "love of learning")

Do you know anything about Christianity, or the Bible?

If you do, can you explain it to me the way on how you understand the bible. Since your Love of Learning new things or anything, I guess, as the Athenians, philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoics spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new things, maybe I can learn something from you instead.

As one unknown poet have said, “Too many people keep things they have learned to themselves to enforce a sense of superiority.”

We are here to learn, but if one cannot share knowledge about anything, then it is no knowledge at all.

REVEALED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE TRUTH IS NOT ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE OF THIS KNOWLEDGE IS.

 

[Knight of Albion]

My understanding is that at the Transfiguration the Christ Spirit overshadowed Jesus and for the duration of his Holy Land ministry God 'spoke' through Jesus.

Claims to Divinity need to be taken as being in the third person.

i.e. 'Nobody comes to the Father but through Me', which is a reference to Christ Consciousness.

'God is Love and Love is of God'.... 'Love is the fulfilling of the Law.'...

Christ Consciousness = Love consciousness :flower2:

 

[BornAgain]

My understanding is that at the Transfiguration the Christ Spirit overshadowed Jesus and for the duration of his Holy Land ministry God 'spoke' through Jesus.

Claims to Divinity need to be taken as being in the third person.

i.e. 'Nobody comes to the Father but through Me', which is a reference to Christ Consciousness.

'God is Love and Love is of God'.... 'Love is the fulfilling of the Law.'...

Christ Consciousness = Love consciousness :flower2:

Christ Consciousness?

What is your understanding on these verses?

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Christ Consciousness?

What is your understanding on these verses?

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

The way to attain eternal life is demonstrated in the parable of the good samaritan

 

[Shermana]

Prove it from the scriptures, from the Masoretic text, from the Tanach, from the Torah, from the Midrash Interpretations, from the LXX or Septuagint, or anything written, bring it out in the open so that this RELIGIOUS FORUM READERS can read it, as i brought it out in the open from the scriptures that Christ is truly God and not just an angel of God.

Prove your case here in RF.

Revealed knowledge about the truth is not arrogance, ignorance of this knowledge is.

How am I supposed to argue with you when you completely ignored what I said about the word "Worship" and how Abraham, Moses, and Joshua all "worshiped" Angels? Just as King David and Saul were "worshiped" among men, the Angels worship Christ. I ask you for the third time, do you know what "worship" means, even after I've explained it?

Maybe if you weren't in such a rush to scream in capital red letters, you would have noticed that.

And no, you have not proven from the scriptures that Christ is truly God, what you've done is demonstrate examples that have already been addressed many times over on this thread on how Trinitarian translators have historically been pulling the wool over the eyes of the flock using blatantly distorted and dishonest grammar and context.

 

[1robin]

No you have not you have given my a verse in which you interpret it to mean that. You still haven't presented and a single bible verse where Jesus says "I am God".

Nor does any Christian have a burden to do so. Where did this awful standard originate? and why? Things are generally known by their characteristics not self declarations. Less than 1% of the labels applied to things are self applied.

 

[1robin]

The way to attain eternal life is demonstrated in the parable of the good samaritan

So if I am kind to one stranger then I am good to go. That is all that is contained in that parable. By the way parables never perfectly represent even what they are applicable to much less things other misapply them to. Since 99.9% of us have treated another well who won't be in heaven?

 

[1robin]

How am I supposed to argue with you when you completely ignored what I said about the word "Worship" and how Abraham, Moses, and Joshua all "worshiped" Angels? Just as King David and Saul were "worshiped" among men, the Angels worship Christ. I ask you for the third time, do you know what "worship" means, even after I've explained it?

Maybe if you weren't in such a rush to scream in capital red letters, you would have noticed that.

And no, you have not proven from the scriptures that Christ is truly God, what you've done is demonstrate examples that have already been addressed many times over on this thread on how Trinitarian translators have historically been pulling the wool over the eyes of the flock using blatantly distorted and dishonest grammar and context.

The same Christ that condemned the worship of Angels and men accepted worship himself. The correct application of a thing means far more than the misapplication of it.

 

[Shermana]

The same Christ that condemned the worship of Angels and men accepted worship himself. The correct application of a thing means far more than the misapplication of it.

By all means point out where Christ himself condemned the worship of Angels. I guess he should have scolded Abraham, Moses, and Joshua for doing just that.

You do know what "worship" means, right? I've only explained it at least 200 times on this thread.

And why exactly do you think I'm misapplying the concept?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

So if I am kind to one stranger then I am good to go. That is all that is contained in that parable. By the way parables never perfectly represent even what they are applicable to much less things other misapply them to. Since 99.9% of us have treated another well who won't be in heaven?

If you want to take it like that sure go ahead.

Though I would ask what was the reason Jesus told that parable and its clear its not about one person.

 

[1robin]

By all means point out where Christ himself condemned the worship of Angels. I guess he should have scolded Abraham, Moses, and Joshua for doing just that.

You do know what "worship" means, right? I've only explained it at least 200 times on this thread.

You are right it was Christ's messenger Paul who said it. He did so as a representative of Christ. I worded my original incorrectly. That being said we are probably at an impasse as Paul is probably anathema to you. As for the word "worship" the translators used the word in every translation I have found.



New International Version (©2011)
Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Don't let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud,
English Standard Version (©2001)
Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Let no one disqualify you, insisting on ascetic practices and the worship of angels, claiming access to a visionary realm and inflated without cause by his unspiritual mind.
International Standard Version (©2012)
Let no one who delights in humility and the worship of angels cheat you out of the prize by rejoicing about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up for no reason by his carnal mind.
NET Bible (©2006)
Let no one who delights in humility and the worship of angels pass judgment on you. That person goes on at great lengths about what he has supposedly seen, but he is puffed up with empty notions by his fleshly mind.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Let not a man wish by humility of mind to subjugate you to the worship of Angels to your condemnation, by which he presumes upon something that he does not see, and is emptily puffed up in his carnal mind,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Let no one who delights in [false] humility and the worship of angels tell you that you don't deserve a prize. Such a person, whose sinful mind fills him with arrogance, gives endless details of the visions he has seen.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Let no man deceive you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
American King James Version
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
American Standard Version
Let no man rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he hath seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Douay-Rheims Bible
Let no man seduce you, willing in humility, and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh,
Darby Bible Translation
Let no one fraudulently deprive you of your prize, doing his own will in humility and worship of angels, entering into things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh,
English Revised Version
Let no man rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he hath seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Webster's Bible Translation
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Weymouth New Testament
Let no one defraud you of your prize, priding himself on his humility and on his worship of the angels, and taking his stand on the visions he has seen, and idly puffed up with his unspiritual thoughts.
World English Bible
Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Young's Literal Translation
let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and in worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh,

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
2:18-23 It looked like humility to apply to angels, as if men were conscious of their unworthiness to speak directly to God. But it is not warrantable; it is taking that honour which is due to Christ only, and giving it to a creature. There really was pride in this seeming humility. Those who worship angels, disclaim Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and man. It is an insult to Christ, who is the Head of the church, to use any intercessors but him.

 

[Shermana]

Even with that said, as I said to Bornagain, Paul's message must either be referring to the "worship" of Fallen Angels, or he is at complete odds with Abraham, Moses, and Joshua, who all did in fact "Worship" Angels.

 

[BornAgain]

Even with that said, as I said to Bornagain, Paul's message must either be referring to the "worship" of Fallen Angels, or he is at complete odds with Abraham, Moses, and Joshua, who all did in fact "Worship" Angels.

JEWISH HERETICS, LIKE YOU, WERE TEACHING THE COLOSSIANS TO WORSHIP ANGELS INSTEAD OF CHRIST. THESE HERETICS, LIKE YOU, STILL BELIEVED THAT ANGELS WERE THE TRUE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN AND NOT CHRIST.

Many Jews had a superstitious or idolatrous respect for angels, because they had received the law and other tidings of the Divine will by their ministry. They looked upon them as mediators between God and men, and some went so far as to pay them a kind of religious homage or worship. Matthew Henry

PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT YOU AND YOUR DELUSIONAL ANGEL’S THEORY.

 

[BornAgain]

Even with that said, as I said to Bornagain, Paul's message must either be referring to the "worship" of Fallen Angels, or he is at complete odds with Abraham, Moses, and Joshua, who all did in fact "Worship" Angels.

The angels of the Lord, -in the O.T. and N.T.- were worshipped, by human of course, only when they are present, or were bringing messages from God to human, and nowhere in the bible did it say, that angels were to be worship on a daily basis like God.