It is, indeed.
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did jesus exist?
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
It is, indeed.
Hint: Famous as what?
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The Bible, to put it simply, is a library of books. In it, we have multiple sources. These sources were never intended to be put together.
More so, we have additional Gospels outside of the Bible, such as Q and Thomas which scholars agree are close to the events.
And again, maybe the stories were exaggerated. We see this in many ancient histories. Why make the exception now?
dogsgod
Well-Known Member
The powerful organization believes its own propaganda, it's not really lying to you because it sincerely believes in what it can't deliver.
Jesus may very well be historical, but I for one will not assume the truth of that for which we have no evidence.
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
I know there were many peasants claiming much the same thing, there have been many many who have had very similiar characteristics...... hmmm again fishy. You really should stop assuming, I mean you only get one *** out of it.
So your saying they made that part up? I am confused did he or did he not ascend to heaven for all to see as the bible claims??? I am sorry but you seem to be the one missing the mark repeatedly.....
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
Your information is completely inaccurate.....
waitasec
Veteran Member
the sarcasm...love it!
Yes; although in this thread it's more like turning water into whine.
Other daily miracles include falling in love without breaking our necks, breaking our hearts without bypass surgery, racking our brains while climbing the ladder of success and juggling numbers, texting our chiropractor for an appointment while it's raining cats and dogs... well, the list goes on.
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
OMG you got something right but you left out, it is not only a alibrary of books or scriptures, but also contrived and edited and plagarized from previous believes.....
waitasec
Veteran Member
are these sources eye witness accounts?
and consider this...
from the same link as the OP...
"LYING FOR THE CHURCH
The editing and formation of the Bible came from members of the early Christian Church. Since the fathers of the Church possessed the scriptoria and determined what would appear in the Bible, there occurred plenty of opportunity and motive to change, modify, or create texts that might bolster the position of the Church or the members of the Church themselves.
The orthodox Church also fought against competing Christian cults. Irenaeus, who determined the inclusion of the four (now canonical) gospels, wrote his infamous book, "Against the Heresies." According to Romer, "Irenaeus' great book not only became the yardstick of major heresies and their refutations, the starting-point of later inquisitions, but simply by saying what Christianity was not it also, in a curious inverted way, became a definition of the orthodox faith." [Romer] If a Jesus did exist, perhaps eyewitness writings got burnt along with them because of their heretical nature. We will never know.
In attempting to salvage the Bible the respected revisionist and scholar, Bruce Metzger has written extensively on the problems of the New Testament. In his book, "The Text of the New Testament-- Its Transmission, Corruption and Restoration, Metzger addresses: Errors arising from faulty eyesight; Errors arising from faulty hearing; Errors of the mind; Errors of judgment; Clearing up historical and geographical difficulties; and Alterations made because of doctrinal considerations. [Metzger]
The Church had such power over people, that to question the Church could result in death. Regardless of what the Church claimed, most people simply believed what their priests told them.
In letter LII To Nepotian, Jerome writes about his teacher, Gregory of Nazianzus when he asked him to explain a phrase in Luke, Nazianzus evaded his request by saying “I will tell you about it in church, and there, when all the people applaud me, you will be forced against your will to know what you do not know at all. For, if you alone remain silent, every one will put you down for a fool." Jerome responds with, "There is nothing so easy as by sheer volubility to deceive a common crowd or an uneducated congregation."
In the 5th century, John Chrysostom in his "Treatise on the Priesthood, Book 1," wrote, "And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."
Ignatius Loyola of the 16th century wrote in his Spiritual Exercises: "To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it"
Martin Luther opined: "What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them."
With such admission to accepting lies, the burning of heretical texts, Bible errors and alterations, how could any honest scholar take any book from the New Testament as absolute, much less using extraneous texts that support a Church's intransigent and biased position, as reliable evidence?"
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MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
Yes; although in this thread it's more like turning water into whine.
Other daily miracles include falling in love without breaking our necks, breaking our hearts without bypass surgery, racking our brains while climbing the ladder of success and juggling numbers, texting our chiropractor for an appointment while it's raining cats and dogs... well, the list goes on.
Hey if thats the type you prefer, by all means.
And nothing you just mentioned is an actual miracle, so.....
If you say so.
MW0082
Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
waitasec
Veteran Member
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I'm missing the mark because I actually did some research? It doesn't take much research at all to find that in ancient histories they exaggerated and made up myths. So yes, Jesus did not ascent to heaven for all to see as the Bible claims.
You are aware that many ancient histories contain myths right? Do you take those to be accurate or do you just throw those accounts out as well? Not very logical at all.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Have you done any research? The vast majority of all scholars agree with my dating.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
As an ex baptist preacher I can tell you the Southern Baptist Church purged all the liberal and No-Orthodox Theologians out of there seminaries by the early 1980's
I use to like the 4 Bs of Neo-Orthodox Christian Theology; Rudolf Bultmann, Karl Barth, Emil Brunner and Dietrich Bonhoeffe. Rudolf Bultmann and Demythologization of the New Testament is something that is right in line with what we are talking about. This was the start of my drift away from Christianity.
A non B theologian that I really liked was Reinhold Niebuhr a theologian who was widely seen as an American intellectual. In fact he had a group of followers who called themselves Atheists for Niebuhr. Martin Luther King was a fan until he came on the works of a better thinker Gandhi (Hindu of coarse.
)
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Why not prove it? Because you can't, because I doubt you've done any study. Maybe you would want to do a little research at all. And if you want to claim something as you did, maybe you want to back it up.
waitasec
Veteran Member
but it makes me sad to think so many people hold onto exaggerations which have been used to justify intolerance, know what i mean?
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Again, eye witness accounts do not mean they are better. Maybe you would like to read Metzgers book though.