Dharmic: A question

[Rick O'Shez]

My point is that wisdom really cannot arise. IMO, wisdom can be unraveled by stripping away the veil of ignorance. For example, as long as we associate self with mind-body, we are perturbed by rise of lust. However, when it is realised that lust arises in khandas, which do not constitute the self, perturbation ceases. This is just an example.

I tend to agree. It sounds like you are arguing for something "beneath" the khandas, something which "sees through" the nature of the khandas?

 

[atanu]

I tend to agree. It sounds like you are arguing for something "beneath" the khandas, something which "sees through" the nature of the khandas?

Probably 'something' is not the correct word. In my understanding, the unborn is non dual and that it is the non dual unborn that helps to discern the impermance and selflessness of names and forms.

 

[kalyan]

Sad to see your post and justifying a slave mentality - you are a slave to a being you have never seen, don't know what he looks like except from old books, there is a doubt that God even exists - basically you think this way because you think that being will reward you? So, all this talk is ultimately about yourself? How to get the good life for yourself?

Have you ever considered that having Life IS about being with God? Oh wait, life is too hard, so no, God can't be here. You want the good easy life so God must be elsewhere? Manava Seva is Madhava Seva - see that there is much to do down here - animals tortured in factory farms all around the world, children being abducted and sold as sex slaves, discrimination, poverty - when you fight these, that is when you are truly with God

A rock doesn't die, a rock doesn't suffer - a rock doesn't suffer the cycle of life and death - even after all the suns in the universe are burnt out, rocks will still be here - even the earth is a rock

Careful with your choices - you end up going the wrong way

have you even read my post? I think you are too much clouded by ur own ego to realise ur true nature i.e surrender to the lotus feet of Sri Krushna paramaatma.
First ask yourself how many karmas I have done as service to god and NOT to further my ego

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Probably 'something' is not the correct word. In my understanding, the unborn is non dual and that it is the non dual unborn that helps to discern the impermance and selflessness of names and forms.

The unconditioned is described in the suttas as unchanging ( no arising and ceasing ), in contrast to the perpetual movement of the aggregates.

 

[crossfire]

The unconditioned is described in the suttas as unchanging ( no arising and ceasing ), in contrast to the perpetual movement of the aggregates.

It also refers to the ending of objectification, so if you are asking whether it is or is not, you are straying from it (the nondual) by objectifying it.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.174.than.html

 

[Papoon]

My point is that wisdom really cannot arise. IMO, wisdom can be unraveled by stripping away the veil of ignorance. For example, as long as we associate self with mind-body, we are perturbed by rise of lust. However, when it is realised that lust arises in khandas, which do not constitute the self, perturbation ceases. This is just an example.

Perturbation has such a bad rap. LOL.
What I have learned is to take the rough with the smooth.
The concept of arriving at permanent perfect peace is a head trip IMO.
The belief that ordinary human suffering is evidence of ignorance really needs to be challenged. To me, it is a sack of potatoes which is just an extra hassle to carry around.
There are good days and bad days. Period.
In my experience, the bliss of samadhi arises and disappears.
Trying to secure it is grasping which just increases frustration and negative self judgement.
Isavasyam idam sarvam
Roll with it !

 

[atanu]

I agree. But experience of and abidance in knowledge 'isAvâsyamidaM sarvam' is a pre-requisite.... IMO.

He he.

 

[Papoon]

I agree. But experience of and abidance in knowledge 'isAvâsyamidaM sarvam' is a pre-requisite.... IMO.

He he.

Yes. And as Patanjali said, the yogi's work is like a farmer. His job is not to cause the plants to grow, but to remove the obstructions to their growth.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It also refers to the ending of objectification, so if you are asking whether it is or is not, you are straying from it (the nondual) by objectifying it.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.174.than.html

I'm afraid that went right over my head. What I experience is the movement of the conditioned and the stillness of the unconditioned.

 

[crossfire]

I'm afraid that went right over my head. What I experience is the movement of the conditioned and the stillness of the unconditioned.

The sutta is really short and easy to understand.
Key snippet:

"The statement, 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media [vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch, & intellection] is it the case that there is anything else?' objectifies non-objectification. The statement, '... is it the case that there is not anything else ... is it the case that there both is & is not anything else ... is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectifies non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes. However far objectification goes, that is how far the six contact media go. With the remainderless fading & stopping of the six contact-media, there comes to be the stopping, the allaying of objectification.​

 

[Papoon]

With the remainderless fading & stopping of the six contact-media, there comes to be the stopping, the allaying of objectification.

Nitrous oxide or hyper oxygenation will do that too.
The zen paradox of the stateless state is actually useless.

 

[crossfire]

Nitrous oxide or hyper oxygenation will do that too.
The zen paradox of the stateless state is actually useless.

It's useful for discerning the named/conceptual/fabricated from the unnamed/unconceptual/unfabricated.

 

[Papoon]

It's useful for discerning the named/conceptual/fabricated from the unnamed/unconceptual/unfabricated.

Aah. You are a dualist.

 

[crossfire]

Aah. You are a dualist.

My understanding of non-dual is perception free from like-dislike distortion/biases, which includes not clinging even to "one," as per the Hsin-Hsin Ming.

 

[Papoon]

My understanding of non-dual is perception free from like-dislike distortion/biases, which includes not clinging even to "one," as per the Hsin-Hsin Ming.

Here is one of my songs (sung acid country style) -

We're absolutely equal
And we're relatively different
I'm absolutely careless
And I'm relatively sad

It takes one to know one
It takes two to see the difference
I'm indifferent absolutely
And I'm relatively glad

 

[Aupmanyav]

My understanding of non-dual is perception free from like-dislike distortion/biases, which includes not clinging even to "one," as per the Hsin-Hsin Ming.

In non-duality, there is none to cling to.

 

[crossfire]

In non-duality, there is none to cling to.

Hence, the lack of like-dislike bias. (Bias from clinging.)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, that is the idea.