Dharmic: A question

[atanu]

Buddha teaches that there is no self in five skandhas and exhorts us to examine truth of this. But how does one do that? Non existent examining non existence?

 

[LuisDantas]

No self does not imply lack of existence. We just are, literally, not quite themselves from one moment to the next.

An impermanent, interdependent, conditioned self may easily wtill be capable of examining its own condition to some degree and benefit from that.


Or to put it in another way: while it is natural for us to identify with the skandhas and confuse them with a true self, we do not need to and will benefit from learning better and not allowing that illusion to keep us away from worthwhile pursuits.

 

[atanu]

Yes. Benefit.

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you asking who benefits?

 

[atanu]

No self does not imply lack of existence. We just are, literally, not quite themselves from one moment to the next.

An impermanent, interdependent, conditioned self may easily wtill be capable of examining its own condition to some degree and benefit from that.


Or to put it in another way: while it is natural for us to identify with the skandhas and confuse them with a true self, we do not need to and will benefit from learning better and not allowing that illusion to keep us away from worthwhile pursuits.

Okay. Existence is not in question. How does an essence less self examine its own condition and know of the benefit? And what is the benefit?

 

[LuisDantas]

Okay. Existence is not in question. How does an essence less self examine its own condition and know of the benefit? And what is the benefit?

There is no essence as such, I think.

There are only beings interdependently originated.

Those beings (us) happen to have the gifts of perception and discernment.

Through luck, wisdom or generous guidance those gifts may lead us to fruitful understanding of some chains of cause and effect and the likely results of choices and actions.

That is the benefit. Of course, it is only a benefit because it leads to further results and benefits as the whell spins on.

 

[buddhist]

Buddha teaches that there is no self in five skandhas and exhorts us to examine truth of this. But how does one do that? Non existent examining non existence?

The Buddha, to my knowledge, does not teach no-self. He teaches not-self.

None of the five khandas are permanent, therefore none of them can be identified as the self, and therefore they are not-self.

During wisdom/insight/mindfulness meditation, one directs one's attention to each of the five khandas, and observes how they arise, change, and disappear. When one gains direct knowledge of this process, one understands their impermanence and gains wisdom into the true nature of the khandas, and how they are not-self.

 

[buddhist]

Okay. Existence is not in question. How does an essence less self examine its own condition and know of the benefit? And what is the benefit?

The conventionally understood "self" arises as a confluence of the combined activity of the five khandas. For example, the activity of the eye causes eye-consciousness to arise, and eye-consciousness - in concert with the consciousnesses of the other five senses - causes the "me" consciousness as a whole to arise.

This fabricated "me" consciousness is used to unravel itself.

 

[Papoon]

Okay. Existence is not in question. How does an essence less self examine its own condition and know of the benefit? And what is the benefit?

We don't know.
Buddha said that asserting there is a self and asserting there is not a self are both errors, declaring the question imponderable.

Regardless of the conceptual framework, or lack of it, the nature of mind, observation, meditation and 'benefits are the same.

 

[atanu]

There is no essence as such, I think.

There are only beings interdependently originated.

Those beings (us) happen to have the gifts of perception and discernment.

Through luck, wisdom or generous guidance those gifts may lead us to fruitful understanding of some chains of cause and effect and the likely results of choices and actions.

That is the benefit. Of course, it is only a benefit because it leads to further results and benefits as the whell spins on.

Thank you. The gift of discernment arises on account of khandas?

 

[LuisDantas]

Thank you. The gift of discernment arises on account of khandas?

You're welcome. I don't know whether discernment happens out of sheer luck, or if it has an origin in any meaningful way.

Somehow I suspect that it is misleading (for me at least) to say that it arises in any way. But at the end of the day I just don't know.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The gift of discernment arises on account of khandas?

On panna ( wisdom ) which is a quality of mind to be developed.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

When one gains direct knowledge of this process, one understands their impermanence and gains wisdom into the true nature of the khandas, and how they are not-self.

I suppose the question arises, who is this "one" that gains direct knowledge? It presumably must be a function of the khandas it is examining, a reflexive awareness.
Perhaps sati ( mindfulness ) is the answer.

 

[atanu]

In my view, it is by removal of all kinds of arisen buddhi that the Buddha is revealed as it is.

 

[buddhist]

I suppose the question arises, who is this "one" that gains direct knowledge? It presumably must be a function of the khandas it is examining, a reflexive awareness.
Perhaps sati ( mindfulness ) is the answer.

The Buddhist path involves stripping everything else away, leaving only nibbana. So, mindfulness, grounded in nibbana, may be the "one"?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The Buddhist path involves stripping everything else away, leaving only nibbana. So, mindfulness, grounded in nibbana, may be the "one"?

There are references in the suttas to turning towards the Deathless/Unconditioned, ie Nibbana. I sometimes think of it like the eye at the centre of a storm, a point of stillness and calm.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Okay. Existence is not in question. How does an essence less self examine its own condition and know of the benefit? And what is the benefit?

I would view that as a karmic question. Much like remembering and forgetting deriving benefit as long as things and instances last.

 

[RamaRaksha]

Okay. Existence is not in question. How does an essence less self examine its own condition and know of the benefit? And what is the benefit?

The Buddha was talking Science? There is no evidence of any self - your question presupposes that there is a self. Science has yet to explain Consciousness - we call it the self - but there is a deeper meaning to the word self than just being aware of oneself

The whole thing about the Buddha's teachings was about the here and now - not what happens after we die etc - leave that to religions. Buddhism is more a spiritual quest, not a religion, which is the reason why anyone can practice it

 

[kalyan]

The Buddha was talking Science? There is no evidence of any self - your question presupposes that there is a self. Science has yet to explain Consciousness - we call it the self - but there is a deeper meaning to the word self than just being aware of oneself

The whole thing about the Buddha's teachings was about the here and now - not what happens after we die etc - leave that to religions. Buddhism is more a spiritual quest, not a religion, which is the reason why anyone can practice it

Have anyone ever saw electron ?

 

[sayak83]

Have anyone ever saw electron ?

Umm yes. They are clearly visible as the fog around the hydrogen atom's nucleus.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21829194-900-smile-hydrogen-atom-youre-on-quantum-camera/