Democrats and Reparations

[Curious George]

That is not true. Corporations and nations are still around today.

Consider: https://atlantablackstar.com/2013/08/26/17-major-companies-never-knew-benefited-slavery/

But we needn't go that far back of we are going to include all discriminatory policies and harm caused.

 

[pearl]

But that isn't enough to correct the economic disparities that exist between black and white considering that blacks had to endure decades to centuries of social and economic policies that put them at great disadvantages.

Referring back to Sander's question, 'how would we do this?', maybe all the southern plantations and all property built and maintained by slaves ought to be confiscated by the government, and then what?, ancestry.com?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If you were President, what form would reparations take and how effective do you think they would be?

That's actually a good question...

Truth be told I don't know, and I'm not sure I would want to be in that situation and I think that is why Obama never really played that hand during his presidency. Considering that his presidency highlighted a lot of social issues that currently exist in the United States, it would be hard for me in this climate to roll out initiatives to help black people because as the first man of color in office, and leader of the free world I have crosshairs on my back from my political enemies. Anything that singles out a community that I belong to would be seen as favoritism.

Because as a society we haven't been removed from the excess residuals of racism socially, economically, and psychologically, the best I can do is create initiatives to help the working and middle class Americans. To vote in progressive judges and help create pathways to amend laws that disproportionately puts people of color in jail for the same crimes as those who are Caucasian. To help create transparency in law enforcement not only on the state level but the federal level. To help make college education free for all and create a system for universal healthcare. To help decriminalize drugs and reform our immigration laws and find ways where incoming immigrants on a path to citizenship can circulate and recirculate (instead of sending money outside the country). Create affluent businesses in communities without gentrification. Help gang members find jobs and opportunity and is discontinue this mentality that having a record means you cannot get work (this is why we have probationary periods).

The above is just from a political perspective, from a psychological perspective as a president I would have a tour talking to black Americans and discussing my plan. Not in some church, not at some fancy dinner, but in the hoods where the gangs and drug dealers are (of course with safety protocols). I would have town hall meetings and discussions concerning my platform. Hear grievances from African-Americans concerning reparations whether for or against, hear everyone's story, introduce my own, amend some of my ideas based on the ideas of the community then come to a common understanding.

My intent in this regard is to help black Americans become fully aware that during this zeitgeist we will never get a fair shake in this lifetime or their children's children lifetime. I would tell them in the words of my Cambodian friend "blacks are hated and loved everywhere." Everyone wants to be us but when it's time to be us, people don't want to be us. What that means is there are cultures everywhere infatuated with being black case in point take this German woman for example:

Her name is Martina Big who obviously has lost touched with reality considering she once looked like this:

The problem with people like her is that she considers being black funny, a joke, something like a fad where it seems cool at the time. She often travels to African countries and used African cultural appropriation now she thinks by her travels and surgical manipulation to create melanin she is an black African woman. She has never had to face racism as a black woman, nor the social stigma for being black. Even now in her supposed identity as a black African woman she is still utilizing her white privilege by adopting something she has not earned nor even born with but because she has money, time, and resources, she has the ability to be black without the black experience.

Now she has a white husband in on the gig and even said that when her baby is born it will be black (I guess the husband thinks he is black) considering she is "black" I'm surprised she got with a white guy instead of a black man since her new found identity but whatever:

As long as people like Martina Big or the Rachel Dolezals of the world exist and as long as people use comparative utility arguments black people will not be owed something that is due without strings. As a president I'd rather for black businesses to succeed without help therefore the "other society" wont say "see we gave you this or that." Black Americans will not get what is due to them. Never, at least not in my lifetime. This really has nothing to do with slavery I'm talking about decades upon decades of legal and housing injustices that has robbed many black Americans like my parents, parents, parents, opportunities for success. The playing fields were uneven and the best I can do as president is to even the playing fields decreasing the economic gap.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

A bit surprising that Ta-Nehisi Coates has escaped mention in this thread. I assume you have read, or listened to him, if not you should.

The name sounds familiar but I'm not aware of who that person is. I was just made aware of the aforementioned candidates but Williamsom was the only one among the ones I mentioned that had presented some numbers.

I worry that democrats pandering the idea of reparation severely misses the mark.

I think they're pandering to disillusioned black voters of Obama who felt isolated during his presidency because some believed black American initiatives were not supported.

Injustices occurred. The ripples of those injustices still pervade our current stream of reality. While we can discuss various remedies for that, doing so loses meaning when we neglect to address the actual injustices and bring them to the forefront.

What are the actual injustices?

For some injustices there is no viable legal remedy. For others, we could certainly brainstorm. But the focus on who gets what and who pays what is in some ways putting the cart before the horse.

I agree..

Even here discussing a political aspect you are asked what you think you are owed. I am not surprised that is the direction this thread took. Are you?

I'm pretty sure I know who asked that stupid question and I didn't see it because there are two idiots I have on ignore. But let me answer the question anyway.

What am I owed?

People who often ask these questions are devoid of any reason or empathy when it comes to the black experience. I see a lot of "slavery was horrible but..." type answers. Often times you have Irish descendants chiming in trying to circulate the myth that their ancestors were slaves as well but facts are facts:

https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-irish-were-not-slaves

Point is, is that as my mother once said "nobody owes you anything in this world." So in light of all that nobody owes me anything, what I can ask for is a fair opportunity. But even asking for fairness that often comes with strings. In my post to @Augustus you'll see that I know monetary compensation is not and will not be possible. Not only are there social issues of defining who is considered "African-American" but there are also legal issues (slavery was outlawed but for 237 years it was legal) so it would be hard pressed for the U.S. government to distribute money owed. Black Americans have been robbed of their own history so its hard to trace back who is related to who, so our community since, has been fragmented. In addition to that, people often keep using the comparative utility argument of "you're better here than there" so reparations would only create a further social divide. but to answer your questioned whether am I surprised (or not) my answer is no.

I would like to see a productive conversation regarding the injustices, the reasoning behind those injustices, the benefits to those injustices and the consequences of those injustices. I understand that is not the topic of your thread, but I am not sure this thread can get back on track.

I don't mind extending that discussion to that but that productive discussion would only be bounced around between two people, but go ahead and introduce some ideas.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Referring back to Sander's question, 'how would we do this?', maybe all the southern plantations and all property built and maintained by slaves ought to be confiscated by the government, and then what?, ancestry.com?

At this point you cannot put a monetary price for generations of pain of injustice.

 

[pearl]

At this point you cannot put a monetary price for generations of pain of injustice.

Exactly. What can be done is to insure an equal playing field. Lets not forget the civil rights movement was a black initiative, and it is them who spilled the blood to achieve it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Exactly. What can be done is to insure an equal playing field. Lets not forget the civil rights movement was a black initiative, and it is them who spilled the blood to achieve it.

But the problem is the playing field is not equal. Systemic racism is still a problem. According to the Institute for Policy Studies, "if current economic trends continue, the average black household will need 228 years to accumulate as much wealth as their white counterparts hold today. For the average Latino family, it will take 84 years. Absent significant policy interventions, or a seismic change in the American economy, people of color will never close the gap" (Source:The Average Black Family Would Need 228 Years to Build the Wealth of a White Family Today).

In the above source, Chuck Collins stated “[Economist] Thomas Picketty said that, left uninterrupted, we would move toward a hereditary aristocracy of wealth. What he didn’t say is that in the United States, that would be almost entirely a white aristocracy of wealth."

 

[esmith]

Well I look at this way....
It is a "feel good" idea that would be almost impossible to implement.

 

[Curious George]

What are the actual injustices?

That is a large question. I am sure one of my posts could never cover all. But if you give me several hours of your time, then we will be closer to the same page to try to undertake such an endeavor.

 

[pearl]

In the above source, Chuck Collins stated “[Economist] Thomas Picketty said that, left uninterrupted, we would move toward a hereditary aristocracy of wealth. What he didn’t say is that in the United States, that would be almost entirely a white aristocracy of wealth."

And our present situation makes that clear. No matter how flawed Affirmative Action was it did make its mark on the playing field. But this same 'aristocracy of wealth' presently has the power to insure its own success.
I am old enough to remember desegregation of the schools and at the time thinking it would not affect us in Massachusetts because our schools were not technically segregated but referred to as 'de facto' segregation, by neighborhood. As a result kids were bussed to schools outside their neighborhood.
Racism is an evil that raises its ugly head when the times are ripe, like now.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

And our present situation makes that clear. No matter how flawed Affirmative Action was it did make its mark on the playing field.

How? In what way do you see it that way? What was the mark?

I am old enough to remember desegregation of the schools and at the time thinking it would not affect us in Massachusetts because our schools were not technically segregated but referred to as 'de facto' segregation, by neighborhood.

funny I hear "beantown" is the worst place to be if you're black.