Debate vs Discussion: What's the Difference?

[QuestioningMind]

I'm sorry my OP was not clear enough for you to understand it. I don't know how I could make it any clearer though. You might want to stick to debate forums if you do not understand discussion forums any better than you do.

No, I think your OP was very clear. So called 'discussion' threads are really just 'agreement' threads, since you're only allowed into the 'discussion' if you happen to agree with the claims being made.

 

[Stevicus]

I can't ever remember having a thread shut down because it went off (original) topic. But then i don't have he best memory either.

.

I only remember it happening once or twice, so it is kind of rare. I remember one time responding a thread which had been removed while I was composing my post.

 

[Sunstone]

No, I think your OP was very clear. So called 'discussion' threads are really just 'agreement' threads, since you're only allowed into the 'discussion' if you happen to agree with the claims being made.

That's your opinion. I myself don't agree with it.

 

[Sunstone]

Wouldn't that be implied if someone expressed a contrary opinion? When you assert it's UP, with reasoning or evidence, and I assert it's DOWN, with reasoning or evidence, it's implied in my opinion that you're wrong. Isn't it?


.

Please see post #32.

 

[Katzpur]

No one on RF ever listens with comprehension and understanding to anyone else.

This is precisely what I was trying to say in your other recent thread, Sunstone, where you asked whether people came here primarily to teach or to learn. Everybody expressed a desire to learn about how other people see the world, and in particular about educating themselves about religious beliefs other than their own. I commented that if that was, in fact, the truth, we would see this evidenced in their posts. It's always been clear to me that "no one of RF ever listens with comprehension and understanding to anyone else." It's just that no one seems to be willing to admit that they're guilty of this.

 

[Sunstone]

This is precisely what I was trying to say in your other recent thread, Sunstone, where you asked whether people came here primarily to teach or to learn. Everybody expressed a desire to learn about how other people see the world, and in particular about educating themselves about religious beliefs other than their own. I commented that if that was, in fact, the truth, we would see this evidenced in their posts. It's always been clear to me that "no one of RF ever listens with comprehension and understanding to anyone else." It's just that no one seems to be willing to admit that they're guilty of this.

Thanks. I didn't fully catch your drift in the other thread even though I thought I did. Your post here has been helpful (I hope).

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Maybe debate means something like arguing to try to prove a point against another position or point and discussion means just saying stuff and adding points without any opposition or aspects of trying to prove another party or statement or position as incorrect?

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe debate means something like arguing to try to prove a point against another position or point and discussion means just saying stuff and adding points without any opposition or aspects of trying to prove another party or statement or position as incorrect?

That's a good paraphrase of how debate and discussion are distinguished from each other in this context. Thank you so much for that.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

That's a good paraphrase of how debate and discussion are distinguished from each other in this context. Thank you so much for that.

Your response makes me feel really good, thank you for writing it the way you did! It really made my day and made me feel appreciated, seriously, so kind of you! Thank you!

 

[oldbadger]

Which one/s is/are OK for passive aggression?

Hello! Thanks for the likey!
Passive Aggressive?
Well, that's a problem....
If a member might offer an alternative viewpoint on a discussion thread, this can be seen in different ways according to whether that member is liked, tolerated, disliked etc....
After all, an alternative viewpoint put forward in an unaggressive way could be seen as either polite assertion, passive aggression, polite domination, reasonable discussion..... Hmmmm.... In discussion threads I usually offer proposals commencing with could, might, maybe, imo, etc.....

I've got a stupid deranged sense of humour, ask any member, and I might think that a really serious point in a post is in fact a brilliantly funny joke. But I don't tick 'funny' any more unless I have got on ok with that member for a time.

How about turning a strong opinion in to a question? That might offer some protection from criticism. Instead of telling a member that they are a total nutter (= a telling off or worse) maybe something like ........ Oh! ..... Oh No! ....... I mustn't go on...... my silly humour was about to get me in to trouble.

 

[Secret Chief]

Hello! Thanks for the likey!
Passive Aggressive?
Well, that's a problem....
If a member might offer an alternative viewpoint on a discussion thread, this can be seen in different ways according to whether that member is liked, tolerated, disliked etc....
After all, an alternative viewpoint put forward in an unaggressive way could be seen as either polite assertion, passive aggression, polite domination, reasonable discussion..... Hmmmm.... In discussion threads I usually offer proposals commencing with could, might, maybe, imo, etc.....

I've got a stupid deranged sense of humour, ask any member, and I might think that a really serious point in a post is in fact a brilliantly funny joke. But I don't tick 'funny' any more unless I have got on ok with that member for a time.

How about turning a strong opinion in to a question? That might offer some protection from criticism. Instead of telling a member that they are a total nutter (= a telling off or worse) maybe something like ........ Oh! ..... Oh No! ....... I mustn't go on...... my silly humour was about to get me in to trouble.

Ah, you English types with your Monty Python and rampant understatements.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I've got a stupid deranged sense of humour, ask any member, and I might think that a really serious point in a post is in fact a brilliantly funny joke. But I don't tick 'funny' any more unless I have got on ok with that member for a time.

Behold, a stupid & bad joke:

What did the Snake say to the man whose foot invaded the home he'd made in the man's shoe?
Nothing, he's a snake, he also didn't bite him. The Snake was being passive, but how was the snake being aggressive? The snake had left a snake-like fortune cookie styled paper behind in the shoe on which the snake had written "My name is oldbadger". So how was the snake being aggressive? How did the snake not say something but instead write something? Well it appears the questions are piling up, and so I bid thee adieu!

 

[oldbadger]

Behold, a stupid & bad joke:

What did the Snake say to the man whose foot invaded the home he'd made in the man's shoe?
Nothing, he's a snake, he also didn't bite him. The Snake was being passive, but how was the snake being aggressive? The snake had left a snake-like fortune cookie styled paper behind in the shoe on which the snake had written "My name is oldbadger". So how was the snake being aggressive? How did the snake not say something but instead write something? Well it appears the questions are piling up, and so I bid thee adieu!

Ah!...... So the snake was a liar!
No joke there .... But just a deception, maybe?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Ah!...... So the snake was a liar!
No joke there .... But just a deception, maybe?

Haha, that is such an awesome way to look at it, I'm actually stunned! Amazing!

decipere "to ensnare, take in, beguile, cheat," from de"from" or pejorative (see de-) + capere "to take," from PIE root *kap- "to grasp."

Very interesting, because snakes often grasp their victims!

The "Ah!" also resembles the word for snake in Sanskrit,

ophio-
before vowels ophi-, word-forming element meaning "a snake, serpent," from Greekophio-, combining form of ophis "serpent, a snake," probably from PIE *egwhi- (source also of Sanskrit ahi-, Avestan aži- "snake," and perhaps the first element of a Germanic word for "lizard," i.e. Old High German egi-dehsa). Hence ophiolatry "serpent-worship" (1862), and the 2c. sect of the Ophitæ, who revered the serpent as the symbol of divine wisdom.

You really managed to open up a lot from that strange little tale, so let me tell you another one!

The weight of the world is a passive aggression, as the culmination of our motions and needs and inabilities create difficulties later which then torment us. A simple example of this is how we might fill a pit with the waste matter from our needing to eat and urgency to release the after effects for the sake of convenience. In one such pit, there lived a snake. Oh no, its just a turd, I thought it was a brown snake for a second, nevermind.

Well, if there had been a snake living in that pit, as snakes tend to be associated with pits and scenarios like that, I'd say it was having a quite a poopy experience, but it turned out that it was actually just a long snake-like portion of defecated matter.

It would also be sort of strange and ironic if that matter of which the unit or poo-nit if you will, had once been a snake before before being defecated.

Thus, as Sakaspeare wondered "At what point is a snake a snake and at what point is it no longer a snake? The answer had been, for those slow, or slow to answer, that at no point is a snake ever a snake and so at no point is there "no snake".

How so?

Well, there is no way to ever decidedly determine the beginning or the end of when a snake really is or isn't (reminds me of the Ouroboros), because if you chop up a snake (like that image from the Early United States, perhaps related to the Don't Tread On Me movement), every piece of it is still considered "snake" or "snake bits". So a snake is a composite of things which are also just "bits", of other things, which could just as well be called "snake bits".

Add an h as the key to any of these meditation boxes:

ttps://youtu.be/NwcNNbxUE-w

ttps://youtu.be/_OYlACAGjng

ttps://youtu.be/nse8jE_Mb8I

ttps://youtu.be/d_nWE0QfaKc

ttps://youtu.be/b-gCUkxisxU

ttps://youtu.be/-gW513E8_6I

This tale I told through words, song, and hopefully dance, was one of mortality, the intrinsically passive aggressive state of being, as we struggle against everything by kissing butts to the point of eating tales like these to reach whats right behind our head.

What is behind whatever we see?

ttps://youtu.be/zwMHXgusVzk

ttps://youtu.be/zj3bs-5lDnM

 

[oldbadger]

Haha, that is such an awesome way to look at it, I'm actually stunned! Amazing!

decipere "to ensnare, take in, beguile, cheat," from de"from" or pejorative (see de-) + capere "to take," from PIE root *kap- "to grasp."

Very interesting, because snakes often grasp their victims!

The "Ah!" also resembles the word for snake in Sanskrit,

ophio-
before vowels ophi-, word-forming element meaning "a snake, serpent," from Greekophio-, combining form of ophis "serpent, a snake," probably from PIE *egwhi- (source also of Sanskrit ahi-, Avestan aži- "snake," and perhaps the first element of a Germanic word for "lizard," i.e. Old High German egi-dehsa). Hence ophiolatry "serpent-worship" (1862), and the 2c. sect of the Ophitæ, who revered the serpent as the symbol of divine wisdom.

You really managed to open up a lot from that strange little tale, so let me tell you another one!

The weight of the world is a passive aggression, as the culmination of our motions and needs and inabilities create difficulties later which then torment us. A simple example of this is how we might fill a pit with the waste matter from our needing to eat and urgency to release the after effects for the sake of convenience. In one such pit, there lived a snake. Oh no, its just a turd, I thought it was a brown snake for a second, nevermind.

Well, if there had been a snake living in that pit, as snakes tend to be associated with pits and scenarios like that, I'd say it was having a quite a poopy experience, but it turned out that it was actually just a long snake-like portion of defecated matter.

It would also be sort of strange and ironic if that matter of which the unit or poo-nit if you will, had once been a snake before before being defecated.

Thus, as Sakaspeare wondered "At what point is a snake a snake and at what point is it no longer a snake? The answer had been, for those slow, or slow to answer, that at no point is a snake ever a snake and so at no point is there "no snake".

How so?

Well, there is no way to ever decidedly determine the beginning or the end of when a snake really is or isn't (reminds me of the Ouroboros), because if you chop up a snake (like that image from the Early United States, perhaps related to the Don't Tread On Me movement), every piece of it is still considered "snake" or "snake bits". So a snake is a composite of things which are also just "bits", of other things, which could just as well be called "snake bits".

Add an h as the key to any of these meditation boxes:

ttps://youtu.be/NwcNNbxUE-w

ttps://youtu.be/_OYlACAGjng

ttps://youtu.be/nse8jE_Mb8I

ttps://youtu.be/d_nWE0QfaKc

ttps://youtu.be/b-gCUkxisxU

ttps://youtu.be/-gW513E8_6I

This tale I told through words, song, and hopefully dance, was one of mortality, the intrinsically passive aggressive state of being, as we struggle against everything by kissing butts to the point of eating tales like these to reach whats right behind our head.

What is behind whatever we see?

ttps://youtu.be/zwMHXgusVzk

ttps://youtu.be/zj3bs-5lDnM

So deep a post as that needs s second or third reading, methinks.

About that pit for poop. Let's leave that snake alone, free of poop .... we need the poop above with all the other dirt and dust. How else will anybody grow our potatoes, or asparagus,, etc?

Poop is good for us.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

One more for the boogey, man! Thanks to your comment and my response, I found so much spiritual stuff that I've never seen or heard before! Notice the tunnel in the butterfly video and the one from the film, there is so much passive aggressiveness in there as well throughout the writing, I didn't even realize before how magical and powerful and productive that term could be!

ttps://youtu.be/zyTZ2Pkb9cA

Its opened up a chain of magical content perceived as "communications" from that terrible serpent, the one you know as Deceiver, who turns what is not (a lie, a joke) into what IS and turns what is, into what is no longer so! Mighty, Mighty, Mighty (MMM) is the Master!

M-M-M
ttps://youtu.be/4aVJNPsrlJc

When is a joke so funny that you dance?

ttps://youtu.be/9HqYAbLDvDE

When is the truth so brutal that you

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

So deep a post as that needs s second or third reading, methinks.

About that pit for poop. Let's leave that snake alone, free of poop .... we need the poop above with all the other dirt and dust. How else will anybody grow our potatoes, or asparagus,, etc?

Poop is good for us.

Haha, absolutely, and I hope I'm not alone with my magic and my messages but I might be, I'd rather that be be a me just so I can have another m word but alas, I'm on the lam, whatever that means!
(That phrase, which I do myself know what it means, led me to numerous more exciting discoveries, though slightly disturbing, as two of them had to do with watery deaths and destruction, perhaps information overload, or simply being banned from the website by being too off topic seeming here!).

I'll refrain from this in this thread, but I invite you to come play with me, as your words have brought about a lot of fruits, and the blossoming of one big one!

The post I made is meant to be both silly and simultaneously insightful and trigger both a humorous reaction and one that can still make much out of it and interpret it in the deepest ways possible! I really did find those great pieces of music in a chaotic and magic sort of way through different things brought up miraculously with your words as a catalyst.

I will make a thread particularly for this practice and hope that people will participate there by providing material that I end uo using to lead to a number of odd events and reactions that bring about oracular seeming content and messages!

 

[Koldo]

QUESTION:

What is the difference on RF between debate and discussion so far as the moderators, administrators, and the rules of the Forum are concerned?​

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

If the words in your post have the same or similar effect as trying to prove another member is wrong, you are likely to be judged to be debating.

If the words in your post do not have the same or similar effect as trying to prove another member is wrong, you are unlikely to be judged to be debating.​

WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO TO STAY WITHIN THE RULES:

YOU CAN...

• State your position, views, and opinions.
• Ask respectful questions of other members about their own positions, views, and opinions.
• Respectfully discuss your position, views, and opinions with other members.
  
• Compare and contrast your position, views, and opinions with those of other member's positions, views, and opinions, but only for the purpose -- and in the spirit of -- clarification.
• Give reasons and evidence to show your reasoning, or to show you are right.

YOU CANNOT...

• Try to show that another member's positions, views, and opinions are wrong.

RF RULE NUMBER TEN: DEBATING IN NON-DEBATE FORUMS OR POSTING IN DIR/ONLY FORUMS:

Religious forums is structured to provide spaces for many different kinds of conversations. Different kinds of conversations belong in different areas of the forum:

1) Debates should be kept to the debate areas of the forums, including Religious Debates, General Debates, and Political Debates. Debating anywhere other than these forums may result in moderation. Same Faith Debates is governed by special rules described here. Only members of the specified groups(s) can participate in these threads.

2) All DIR (Discuss Individual Religions) forums are for the use of members who identify with those groups or practices. Debating is not permitted in DIRs; debates between members of specified groups should be posted in Same Faith Debates. Members who do not identify with a DIR group may only post respectful questions; we recommend creating a thread in the Religions Q&A instead where there is more freedom to comment. DIR forums are not to be used as a cover to bash others outside of the DIR group.

3) The Political World forum has several "only" subforums that are for the use of members who identify with those political leanings. Members who do not identify with those political leanings are not allowed to post there.​

RF MISSION STATEMENT:

As a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.​

I don't mind the rules but can you add a disclaimer when we get to read a topic in the discussion section?

Something like: This topic was posted on the Discussion forum. You are welcome to express your opinion but you can't state that another member is in the wrong.

This serves two purposes: It explains the concept to newcomers and makes it hard for a member not to notice where the topic was posted.

 

[osgart]

Debating is the trap of arguing to refute.

Discussion is that which seeks to understand the other.

Discussion comes before effective debate.

 

[oldbadger]

Debating is the trap of arguing to refute.

Discussion is that which seeks to understand the other.

Discussion comes before effective debate.

That could well be true.
That, and also the clash of swords in debate which can bring forth the sparks of truth. ........... and many thanks to Bahauallah for that sentence.