Dark Night of the Soul

[Orbit]

I am interested in hearing experiences and perspectives on the dark night of the soul. I am currently struggling with this. How long does it last? Can you do anything about it? Have you been through it? What was it like, and how did you come out of it? Why does it happen?

 

[StarryNightshade]

I have these periodically. I'll be fine for a few months, but then for about 2-3 weeks I'm stricken with severe anxiety and doubt. After a while, I go back to how things were and things will be fine again. After a few months, I'll have my couple weeks of doubts, and then go back to normal. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I don't know why it happens. It could be my Aspergers, coupled with anxiety and possible depression, but after my periods of doubt, I always go back to Hinduism. I suppose I can't really turn my back on it.

EDIT: I just realized this is the Mysticism DIR. Whoops.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What does that phrase mean to a mystic?

I looked it up and it gave me all these christian perspectives and foriegn language.

I am interested in hearing experiences and perspectives on the dark night of the soul. I am currently struggling with this. How long does it last? Can you do anything about it? Have you been through it? What was it like, and how did you come out of it? Why does it happen?

 

[Orbit]

What does that phrase mean to a mystic?

I looked it up and it gave me all these christian perspectives and foriegn language.

When you are cut off from your joy; from your connection with life, the universe, Brahman, God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When you are cut off from your joy; from your connection with life, the universe, Brahman, God.

Oooh. I assume every other person on their spiritual path goes through that. Myself included.

Thanks for the def.

 

[YmirGF]

When you are cut off from your joy; from your connection with life, the universe, Brahman, God.

The last time this happened with me, I wasn't cut off from joy, though I was a bit morose and moody. I didn't feel disconnected at all, really, it just didn't matter. It's a very strange feeling to be aware of it all and simply not care. This led to a rather severe bought of depression that it took a few years to work through. For personal reasons, I won't go into the specifics, but I knew exactly why I was depressed -- and that actually made it worse. It was just that peculiar, uncharacteristic, "I don't care" overall attitude that was like an all-pervasive haze. This lasted for about 2 years and the healing period was almost as long...

 

[kepha31]

I am interested in hearing experiences and perspectives on the dark night of the soul. I am currently struggling with this. How long does it last? Can you do anything about it? Have you been through it? What was it like, and how did you come out of it? Why does it happen?

Maybe it's just depression. But "dark night of the soul" is a theological term, so I am not sure if that is the direction you want to look towards. Or maybe you are more of a mystic than your naturalism would allow you to admit, and are tired of it and want some answers. Not to assume anything, here is my answer anyway:

A good place to start is at the beginning...
...with the person who, I think, coined the term. St. John of the Cross wrote a classic called "Dark Night of the Soul". If it's been highly regarded for 400 years, there must be something to it to remain a classic for this long.

A 16th-century mystic who wrote of man's relationship with God, St. John of the Cross was also a Carmelite monk who helped reform the Order and aided St. Teresa of Avila in establishing new convents for women. In this book — his spiritual masterpiece and a classic of Christian literature and mysticism — he addresses several subjects, among them pride, avarice, envy, and other human imperfections. He also provides an extended explanation of Divine love; and describes methods of conversion through prayer, submission, and purification. "the most faithful [translation] that has appeared in any European language: it is, indeed, much more than a translation for [Peers] added his own valuable historical and [critically interpretive] notes." — London Times.

You can order a copy on Amazon here. Any university library worth its salt will have a copy in the religious section.

Much has been said about Mother Teresa and her experiences with the dark night. You have to filter out the atheist prejudice that exploded all over the media and find out what really went on.
Mother Teresa's Dark Night of the Soul

Pope John Paul II (who held 2 Ph.D's if I am not mistaken) had some things to say as well, summarizing Mother Teresa and St. John of the Cross.
Instead of pasting 5 short paragraphs I'll just post the link:
Insight Scoop | The Ignatius Press Blog: Pope John Paul II on the "dark night of the soul"

Someone really needs to get that quote to some MSM folks. But don't tell Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris about it, or we'll hear how John Paul II was an atheist, a doubter, and a man trapped by the mindless dogmas of a superstitious Church, etc., etc. After all, those men have such an excellent grasp of Catholic theology and spirituality...ha!

Lastly, listen for the still small Voice.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

When you are cut off from your joy; from your connection with life, the universe, Brahman, God.

I wonder how you distinguish it from depression though?

 

[Orbit]

I wonder how you distinguish it from depression though?

Well, depression is a medical diagnosis with very clear criteria that go beyond this. Loss of interest in activities, weigh gain/loss, loss of appetite, anxiety, feelings of sadness, suicidal feelings, I mean by the list it's pretty distnguishable. I would say that depression can be part of it, but not necessarily. I don't meet the criteria for depression.

It occurs to me that I need to be more specific about what I am experiencing. Improvements are slowly seeping in around the edges, but in the main it's a lack of Joy, where Joy with a capital J connotes seeing the ineffable in the world around me. It's a POV I've had in the past, but after a few traumatic events I seem to have lost touch with the Joy.

It started about 10 years ago with the death of someone close to me. I stopped seeing the Joy in life. It is persistent. Lately, there have been some times when it lets up, when I can see light around the edges of a closed door, so to speak.

 

[Windwalker]

I would say that depression can be part of it, but not necessarily. I don't meet the criteria for depression.

What would you say describes your experience? How long has it lasted for? Does it come and go or is persistent?

 

[Orbit]

What would you say describes your experience? How long has it lasted for? Does it come and go or is persistent?

I was editing post #9 to include this while you were typing.

 

[roger1440]

What does that phrase mean to a mystic?

I looked it up and it gave me all these christian perspectives and foriegn language.

It’s a sense of senselessness in the mystic’s life. As the mystic detaches himself from the world a void in that person’s life may appear. A void only God can fill. Darkness is where God is not.

 

[Adramelek]

I am interested in hearing experiences and perspectives on the dark night of the soul. I am currently struggling with this. How long does it last? Can you do anything about it? Have you been through it? What was it like, and how did you come out of it? Why does it happen?

I first learned of the dark night of the soul when I was studying Chaos Magic, this depression of the soul. I have experienced it twice so far, this lack of inspiration of mind, will, and soul. The first time was in my early 20's and it lasted for about a year until quite abruptly it ended when I decided to devote my life to studying music theory and piano technique throughout my 20's. It, the dark night, insidiously crept up on me once again after my ex-fiancé and I broke up back in 2000. This time it lasted for about 7 years, my entire life fell apart and at one point I lost everything. Drugs and depression consumed me, as well as, thoughts of suicide. However, through years of struggle, with the help of family, loved ones, an iron willed determination, and a Setian sense of pridefulness of being I fought my way out of that dark night and back on my feet. There are "aftershocks" from that dark night I am still dealing with.

Btw, it wasn't the break up with my ex alone that caused that last dark night, I think it was more my own careless recklessness and mindless actions and decision making at that time.

 

[Mindmaster]

I experienced a similar problem when my father died from complications via stomach cancer and I been on hard times. I lost jobs, lost him, financial troubles, etc... I really didn't see the way out of it. Probably for about a year or two I was completely worthless really and lost my center. I mostly gave up and surrounded myself in video games and booze. After a lot of reflection and self-therapy I figured out what all of this is for me. (I am sharing in the case that it might be helpful information to you.) See it mostly comes down to buying the lie of the modern life and doing too much of what you think you have to do and much less of what your true desire is (the occultniks use the term 'true will', but we can jettison all their aspects of theology for this discussion..) and everything you do that is not that really works to erode that away. You can consciously go with it, but your inner nature will reject it. This is the definition of your "Dark Night"... Now you just are aware of the fact and have found the fault, but no doubt you've been doing it awhile. But, that being said at least you are aware of it -- most people are asleep; be happy in that your thirst for the knowledge will provide the answer.

Now when I say this I am speaking directly of my own experiences, and I am aware of you being a different person but you merely have to find the goalposts and move them into the right place to fit your situation. I had to spend a lot of time dismantling the bull**** that I kept telling myself to find my core reasons to stick around and to understand my true reasons of being here. You know when you're on the right track when you experience what I call a spiritual, "Aha!" moment. It'll literally feel like the entire universe "ka-chings" into place around you for a moment. That's really the measure of when you found what you are looking for. This isn't the same thing as what normally goes on in ones thoughts when they have a good idea... It is a mystical experience, and drastically different.

To that end, I personally used the writings of Leary, Carroll, Hine, Hyatt as well as some readings of other "Chaos" authors to break out of these conditionings that I had received that kept me from my true path. We all grew up with them and without some diligent work in that direction they will simply serve to produce neurosis. We come to rely on them in a way and make them a part of ourselves, and we actually get to the point where we fear changing them -- but, this is the game... They are useful maybe in one instance but they are a restriction in the long run -- best to clear your mind of these things and allow your self not your programming define you. It's time to upgrade to Orbit 2015, are you ready for a new operating system? One that does it all bigger better, and faster?

My point was mostly that we all get married to ideas good and bad and there is no point forming a belief system around them... Let them go and have a peaceful death -- they are not you... The part that is you is unlimited, and you can manifest whatever you need to be provided you stop telling yourself, "No." Once you get all this mental foot dragging out of your way you will find your inertia will naturally return.

- Mind

Some resources in this regard (These are not really in order of quality or anything...)-

This is a quick "Disinformation" talk by Grant Morrison, good if you don't want to get too deep. If you want the long version The Book of Lies is that... There are countless other videos by Robert Anton Wilson, Christopher Hyatt, and others that approach the same subjects. There is mention of magick as a subject in these books, but don't get overly distracted... The real purpose is to remove "cult-ture" from your being so you can full manifest yourself.

Black Iron Prison - Page 1 Black Iron Prison is a Discordian Book on destroying the limitations to ones personality... Multiple unmentioned authors... It does the job... Again, the purpose is similar..

Prometheus Rising really is just a mandatory read. Most of Robert Anton Wilson's work is sort of nebulous but this is pointed and tactical. It basically is focused on your brains software and hardware. I think everyone should read this once.

The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution by P.D. Ouspensky works along these lines by providing a historical context for these notions and what they possibly mean in the context of ones personal development. This author is mostly noted for his association with the "4th Way" moment which again is some occult-y stuff, but not the bulk of your concern. This book was written to educate someone on all their components and allow them to understand the machinations in a scientific context. There is gold here as well.

P.S. I have more, but for brevity I shall leave you with these pointers. A lot of the authors write along similar lines and getting much more exhaustive just wastes our time. =)

 

[Adramelek]

You know when you're on the right track when you experience what I call a spiritual, "Aha!" moment. It'll literally feel like the entire universe "ka-chings" into place around you for a moment. That's really the measure of when you found what you are looking for. This isn't the same thing as what normally goes on in ones thoughts when they have a good idea... It is a mystical experience, and drastically different.

This is what we Setians call "Xeper".

 

[Windwalker]

It’s a sense of senselessness in the mystic’s life. As the mystic detaches himself from the world a void in that person’s life may appear. A void only God can fill. Darkness is where God is not.

In a sense this is right. I think it's a little more specific though, and there well may be several different "dark nights" that occur.

To clarify one thing about dark night of the soul itself first, I believe they are in regard to spiritual transformation periods, as opposed to going through a period of psychological or emotional upheavals, depressions, or general malaise about ones life, which in fact can affect ones spiritual freedom as well. I went through a very long period of feeling 'lost' in myself following a divorce many years back, but I would not classify that as a dark night of the soul, in the spiritual sense. Even though the spiritual life is tied into psychological and emotional conditions of well being, it is not primarily a psychological or emotional matter, but a spiritual one.

The dark night is when you are stuck between two worlds spiritually. You are not satisfied with your current state, yearning for the next and release into it, but unable to realize it, seemingly unable to move into it as much as you desire for this. What it really is is a spiritual identity crisis. You no longer can satisfactorily identify as you once were able to, yet, are unable to release into the next identification.

I might argue it is caused by an inability to sufficiently let go of that past, and release oneself into the Unknown. Certainly hurts and injuries are part of this letting go, and sometimes require specifically addressing those "down here" on the ground, working on unresolved issues of the past, repressions, shadow work, and so forth, which can play a part in one's ability to "self-liberate". If we become fixated psychologically in the past, we have a hard time spiritually letting everything go to move into the future. They do go hand in hand, and why I like the term psycho-spiritual.

So to the types of dark nights on the spiritual level. The dark night of the soul is actually a later experience of transition of moving beyond identification with the soul, into complete abandon into identification with Causal, or God, or Emptiness, or the Self, beyond the subtle state experience of the soul. What comes before this is rather better understood as a dark night of the senses. It where you move between identification with the gross realm, your thoughts and beliefs, you feelings, your emotions, your body, your psychological self, and are stuck between letting go of this, and shifting to identification with your subtle self, your "soul". That period is the first between moving from mere religious beliefs or philosophies, metaphysics, theologies, and so forth into experiencing your subtle body and identifying with that, moving into the apprehension of spirit beyond the mind and reason, but with the soul beyond it.

The dark night of the soul is the final letting go of ones separate self identification with their soul, into disillusion into Self, into God. Each of both of these are death and rebirth experiences, and a great deal of avoidance stands between them, fear, dread, and this state of panic, complete loss, and depression, dissatisfied with what you were, and unable to let go move beyond. This is occurring on a deep spiritual level of one's own being. That's where dark nights occur. And then finally, there is the last dark night of the Self, with a capital S. That is when you no longer identify in that space of Causal Emptiness. There is something more! And finally, your release that, you die as God and reborn as the world in nondual identity. This is the incarnational Self. In this, all identities are embraced, the gross sense self, the subtle soul self, and the Causal Self.

These dark nights typically can last a long time, or they can be relatively short for a few.

Then to add another layer to this, there can also be these stage transitions of dark nights between shifting between stages of growth in natural human development, not in states of consciousness spiritually. And they function much the same as a sense of panic, complete loss, and depression. You know longer think in terms you used in in general cognitive states, worldviews, interpersonal relationships, etc. I'm not talking minor shifts in personally, but leaps to entire new stages of growth developmentally. And these too can interrelate with spiritual growth, but are not the same as the dark night of the soul, which is about spiritual identification. Those dark nights are more identity shifts into a new mode of being as a developed human. And to me, letting go of the pain of death or divorce, stuck for years on end caught between who you were and who are you becoming are dark nights too. But not dark night of the soul. It too though is a process of death and rebirth, complete with a sense of either panic, complete loss, or depression. And to come out of that is death and rebirth as well.

So you have two directions of these dark nights going on, spiritually on a horizontal axis in states of consciousness, spiritual identifications, and vertically in stages of growth in ones person. Discerning between these two may be helpful in looking at what is going on, and what needs to be the potential focus to help transition.

I think this response serves as a response to Orbit's question.

 

[Orbit]

In a sense this is right. I think it's a little more specific though, and there well may be several different "dark nights" that occur.

To clarify one thing about dark night of the soul itself first, I believe they are in regard to spiritual transformation periods, as opposed to going through a period of psychological or emotional upheavals, depressions, or general malaise about ones life, which in fact can affect ones spiritual freedom as well. I went through a very long period of feeling 'lost' in myself following a divorce many years back, but I would not classify that as a dark night of the soul, in the spiritual sense. Even though the spiritual life is tied into psychological and emotional conditions of well being, it is not primarily a psychological or emotional matter, but a spiritual one.

The dark night is when you are stuck between two worlds spiritually. You are not satisfied with your current state, yearning for the next and release into it, but unable to realize it, seemingly unable to move into it as much as you desire for this. What it really is is a spiritual identity crisis. You no longer can satisfactorily identify as you once were able to, yet, are unable to release into the next identification.

I might argue it is caused by an inability to sufficiently let go of that past, and release oneself into the Unknown. Certainly hurts and injuries are part of this letting go, and sometimes require specifically addressing those "down here" on the ground, working on unresolved issues of the past, repressions, shadow work, and so forth, which can play a part in one's ability to "self-liberate". If we become fixated psychologically in the past, we have a hard time spiritually letting everything go to move into the future. They do go hand in hand, and why I like the term psycho-spiritual.

So to the types of dark nights on the spiritual level. The dark night of the soul is actually a later experience of transition of moving beyond identification with the soul, into complete abandon into identification with Causal, or God, or Emptiness, or the Self, beyond the subtle state experience of the soul. What comes before this is rather better understood as a dark night of the senses. It where you move between identification with the gross realm, your thoughts and beliefs, you feelings, your emotions, your body, your psychological self, and are stuck between letting go of this, and shifting to identification with your subtle self, your "soul". That period is the first between moving from mere religious beliefs or philosophies, metaphysics, theologies, and so forth into experiencing your subtle body and identifying with that, moving into the apprehension of spirit beyond the mind and reason, but with the soul beyond it.

The dark night of the soul is the final letting go of ones separate self identification with their soul, into disillusion into Self, into God. Each of both of these are death and rebirth experiences, and a great deal of avoidance stands between them, fear, dread, and this state of panic, complete loss, and depression, dissatisfied with what you were, and unable to let go move beyond. This is occurring on a deep spiritual level of one's own being. That's where dark nights occur. And then finally, there is the last dark night of the Self, with a capital S. That is when you no longer identify in that space of Causal Emptiness. There is something more! And finally, your release that, you die as God and reborn as the world in nondual identity. This is the incarnational Self. In this, all identities are embraced, the gross sense self, the subtle soul self, and the Causal Self.

These dark nights typically can last a long time, or they can be relatively short for a few.

Then to add another layer to this, there can also be these stage transitions of dark nights between shifting between stages of growth in natural human development, not in states of consciousness spiritually. And they function much the same as a sense of panic, complete loss, and depression. You know longer think in terms you used in in general cognitive states, worldviews, interpersonal relationships, etc. I'm not talking minor shifts in personally, but leaps to entire new stages of growth developmentally. And these too can interrelate with spiritual growth, but are not the same as the dark night of the soul, which is about spiritual identification. Those dark nights are more identity shifts into a new mode of being as a developed human. And to me, letting go of the pain of death or divorce, stuck for years on end caught between who you were and who are you becoming are dark nights too. But not dark night of the soul. It too though is a process of death and rebirth, complete with a sense of either panic, complete loss, or depression. And to come out of that is death and rebirth as well.

So you have two directions of these dark nights going on, spiritually on a horizontal axis in states of consciousness, spiritual identifications, and vertically in stages of growth in ones person. Discerning between these two may be helpful in looking at what is going on, and what needs to be the potential focus to help transition.

I think this response serves as a response to Orbit's question.

This was actually very helpful. I liked the part about the spiritual horizontal axis and the vertical axis of personal growth. I think I'm dealing with both. Spiritually, I'm trying to find my way as a non-Christian mystic, and am also working on personal development/growth. I wonder if the two can ever be separated, or if my life is just particularly messy. Elsewhere you've talked about self-contraction. I think I'm dealing with that at the same time as being an ex-Christian deconvert, and sometimes the combination packs a punch. I'm one year deconverted and trying to build a spirituality, so I am feeling a bit liminal spiritually. I haven't hit my "groove" yet, and I mourn for the days when I had.

 

[lovemuffin]

The dark night is when you are stuck between two worlds spiritually. You are not satisfied with your current state, yearning for the next and release into it, but unable to realize it, seemingly unable to move into it as much as you desire for this.

This seems important to me, as well as what you said about the "dark night" as the final letting go of self-identification, at least in the tradition of John of the Cross. Thank you for this post.

I'm going to ramble on a bit now, and Orbit and everyone will have to forgive me in advance if I'm both semi-coherent and overly reliant on Christian expressions. What I want to say is that, somehow, in my experience (and this is the closest I guess I've been to a real dark night), there is something about this feeling of being stuck between two worlds that seems quintessentially human. Like it is the "human condition". Not quite a "rational animal", not quite an angel, or a god. There is this ambivalence, this yearning, this dissatisfaction. There's a line in a gospel: "We played the flute for you, and you did not dance. We sang a dirge, but you did not mourn." I often feel like this, stuck between dancing and mourning.

I feel that in this experience, in this ambivalence, in the hiddenness of the Divine, the night, the cloud of unknowing, nirguna Brahman, Sunyata, all these terms that arise out of mystical experience, there is somehow especially the experience of the Divine, or at least whatever a human experience of that can mean. This to me is also the wonder of the symbology of incarnation. The Divine is not separate from us, it is also Human. My title on the forums is "esse est co-esse", to be is to be together. We are all in some way in "this", whatever this beautiful, tragic, sorrowful, joyful, humbling, inexplicable "this" is, this existence: together.

And in my own experience, when I feel sort of enclosed in myself, that sort of existential despair or isolation, from others or from God, this attitude helps me. I can't say they will help anyone else, it seems very personal to me, but such as it is, I offer it. When I try to get outside of my little "self", when I try to love others as myself -- not just as a different "self", which I might recognize in an objective way as having the same "rights" as I have, or being equivalent -- but love them as my very own self, as not disconnected, not even separate, then in that moment is when I most experience joy and fullness, even though it is so often a joy tinged with sorrow, because we are so often embroiled in pain and suffering. We are so often confronted with our own contingency and precariousness, and the very word "precarious" is etymologically related to prayer, and that very prayer, meditation, contemplation, is the deepest connection to the Absolute, though it is a precarious one, and the deepest connection to others, to life, to the world, to all of this.

 

[Mindmaster]

This seems important to me, as well as what you said about the "dark night" as the final letting go of self-identification, at least in the tradition of John of the Cross. Thank you for this post.

I think we're on to the same concept here. Much of the links I provided were to sort of ground-up.... This is sort of putting the carrot too far before the horse though at least in the context of the OP. =) The reason I used Grant Morrisson's video to illustrate some points is that it says all these things, but gives all of the "set-up". He uses the term "complexes of consciousness" to refer to the fact that whatever we are the ego is just a tool to experience things -- he uses the analogy of erecting a scaffold to build something and then being overly obsessed about the scaffold -- it not being really the thing we are working on. Thus, the personality is like clay -- we can mold it or allow others to do so, and if we think it is what we are we immediately fail to understand the nature of the building (our soul) encased in this scaffold (ego). If the ego itself is a lie of convenience then naturally the division between individuals comes into question - that perhaps we are maybe just the same thing in many manifestations.

Grant explains that as our soul being out of bounds of the three dimensions. To explain, imagine the world is now 2D and not 3D. It has length and width, but no depth... If we placed our hand into that plane and could only see our fingers we would see five distinct circular manifestations, but what we wouldn't see is the connection between them. This kind of jives with my understanding as well based on my own experimentation with the subject. Anyway, it simple to view the video when you have time rather than me going through and paraphrasing away. We're largely in agreement I just am not taking a Judeo-Christian tack.

 

[Windwalker]

This was actually very helpful. I liked the part about the spiritual horizontal axis and the vertical axis of personal growth. I think I'm dealing with both. Spiritually, I'm trying to find my way as a non-Christian mystic, and am also working on personal development/growth. I wonder if the two can ever be separated, or if my life is just particularly messy.

I believe there are interconnected, but are different primary lines of focus. Although some can make it all the way to the highest stages of consciousness development, and be completely full of repressed shadows. I'm a strong advocate of developing but the vertical axis and the horizontal axis. What that means in a nutshell, is someone can be developmentally at a particular stage, complete with repressions and shadows, worldviews, talents and abilities, and have the same spiritual experiences as someone considerably more developed than they are in all those areas. And the other way around too. Someone of advanced development, can be a spiritual moron.

The horizontal axis is a separate development than the vertical one. But most certainly, the horizontal one can open one, make one more prone to growth on the vertical axis, for this reason: they are learning to disidentify with the self-identification of that developmental stage of growth. But key to this, it to be around those who are at those more advanced stages of development, and in an environment which supports and fosters that upward growth. To be in an environment where everyone is a mythic believer, will take these state experiences and actually reinforce that worldview. So there are lots of factors and variables going on, psychological, spiritual, cultural, social, cognitive, and on and on. We are very complex.

Elsewhere you've talked about self-contraction. I think I'm dealing with that at the same time as being an ex-Christian deconvert, and sometimes the combination packs a punch.

Let me clarify, everyone is in a state of self-contraction, until we are liberated into the causal and the nondual. Self-contraction is the natural state. It's what the myth of the Fall is all about, and a good myth it is! It describes the awareness of the separate self and it's existential dread. We can get more into this later.

I'm one year deconverted and trying to build a spirituality, so I am feeling a bit liminal spiritually. I haven't hit my "groove" yet, and I mourn for the days when I had.

I think you'll find what you open to will exceed what you had before. The joy I experienced as a five year in the nakedness of life, is the same joy as now for me, only fuller because I am more than five years old now. I've seen pain, and I hold Beauty in the knowledge of this.