Culture Wars

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What? How? Why? Who?

I'll start off with:

Why the heck would a black person want a career in country music?

- ‘Dangerous gatekeeping’: why is country music still resistant to diversity?

Why the heck would you, I or anyone else question anybody's choice of a career? Isn't it their business, not ours?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The music of Beethoven is not political in nature, so how is it a reasonable comparison with the described nature of the country music genre? Beethoven's music may have been co-opted by white supremacists (has it?) but that is nothing to do with the composer himself. He was not working in a field that was antagonist towards him.

Beethoven was very critical of Vienna as well as French aristocracy and was considered rude and flippant all throughout his later years. Though his music wasn't political, he was, moreso than most composers of his time. But only when he was successful enough that granted him a lot of latitude, and he could pass away a known grouch and still beloved.

There's definitely stories of black people coming to the scene of classical music under lots of repression though, since it was the white affluent movers and shakers that controlled the genre for so long. That has *mostly* but of course nor totally disappeared now. Still know of black artists doing classical being met with "this is ours not yours" sentiment.

 

[Secret Chief]

Beethoven was very critical of Vienna as well as French aristocracy and was considered rude and flippant all throughout his later years. Though his music wasn't political, he was, moreso than most composers of his time. But only when he was successful enough that granted him a lot of latitude, and he could pass away a known grouch and still beloved.

There's definitely stories of black people coming to the scene of classical music under lots of repression though, since it was the white affluent movers and shakers that controlled the genre for so long. That has *mostly* but of course nor totally disappeared now. Still know of black artists doing classical being met with "this is ours not yours" sentiment.

That doesn't change the essential point that Beethoven was not working in an oppositional environment.

 

[Secret Chief]

Why the heck would you, I or anyone else question anybody's choice of a career? Isn't it their business, not ours?

It is of course their choice, it just seems odd and I was floating the idea to determine why. It seems akin to me choosing to work in an abattoir.

 

[MikeF]

The music of Beethoven is not political in nature, so how is it a reasonable comparison with the described nature of the country music genre? Beethoven's music may have been co-opted by white supremacists (has it?) but that is nothing to do with the composer himself. He was not working in a field that was antagonist towards him.

I would first say that I am not an expert or academician of music history etc. and as such I do not know if any of Beethoven's music had political themes. I will go out on a ledge and postulate that some German composers may have had nationalistic or militaristic themes in some of their music, but wholly open to being corrected on that score.

I would agree that, in general, I do not see Beethoven's music as political, but nor do I see the county music genre, as a broad category, style, or genre of music, as political either. Any style of music can be used as the vehicle to carry political themes in lyrics, be it country music, classical music, or punk rock.

What myriad of factors determine the genre to which any musician gravitates? I think it important to separate genre and styles from the thoughts and actions of any one individual musician or activities of corporations involved in music.

If county/western/bluegrass is the genre that a person of color or who is LGBTQ sees as the medium through which they best express themselves musically, then I say they should be encouraged and supported in that, not discourage or dissuaded because of concerns over the associated music industry.

 

[Secret Chief]

I would first say that I am not an expert or academician of music history etc. and as such I do not know if any of Beethoven's music had political themes. I will go out on a ledge and postulate that some German composers may have had nationalistic or militaristic themes in some of their music, but wholly open to being corrected on that score.

I would agree that, in general, I do not see Beethoven's music as political, but nor do I see the county music genre, as a broad category, style, or genre of music, as political either. Any style of music can be used as the vehicle to carry political themes in lyrics, be it country music, classical music, or punk rock.

What myriad of factors determine the genre to which any musician gravitates? I think it important to separate genre and styles from the thoughts and actions of any one individual musician or activities of corporations involved in music.

If county/western/bluegrass is the genre that a person of color or who is LGBTQ sees as the medium through which they best express themselves musically, then I say they should be encouraged and supported in that, not discourage or dissuaded because of concerns over the associated music industry.

My point is the mismatch between a culture and a person wanting to be a part of that culture, even though the culture is in some way antagonistic towards that "category" of person.
So the Beethoven comment doesn't seem comparable since he was not operating in a mismatched environment.

 

[SomeRandom]

Might that not be career-ending? (Rather akin to the Bud Light fiasco... Bud Light boycott over trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney hits beer giant's sales )

Maybe it’s because I’m not American, but I still can’t figure out that boycott. Or if it was a stunt to get a boycott in order for the brand to get in the news lol
Like the company gave a trans person some beer to promote because she had a whole heap of followers. That makes sense from a marketing standpoint. I doubt they care either way on peoples rights or whatever

 

[Secret Chief]

Maybe it’s because I’m not American, but I still can’t figure out that boycott. Or if it was a stunt to get a boycott in order for the brand to get in the news lol

Apparently it was the top selling brand in the US, but sales nosedived.....so no longer the top selling brand of water...sorry...beer.

"In Bud Light's case, it was unseated from its position as the best-selling beer in the US, with sales in the month leading up to 3 June down by nearly 25%. An analysis released by JP Morgan in May projected that Anheuser-Busch's earnings for the year would drop 26%, with sales not recovering fully until the 2024 fiscal year."

- If US companies 'go woke', do they really go broke?

 

[Father Heathen]

Maybe it’s because I’m not American, but I still can’t figure out that boycott. Or if it was a stunt to get a boycott in order for the brand to get in the news lol
Like the company gave a trans person some beer to promote because she had a whole heap of followers. That makes sense from a marketing standpoint. I doubt they care either way on peoples rights or whatever

The boycott was because bigots don't like seeing displays of acceptance, validation, or normalization of those they hate.

For example, if trans = evil, and bud light = pro-trans, then bud light = evil.

 

[SomeRandom]

Apparently it was the top selling brand in the US, but sales nosedived.....so no longer the top selling brand of water...sorry...beer.

"In Bud Light's case, it was unseated from its position as the best-selling beer in the US, with sales in the month leading up to 3 June down by nearly 25%. An analysis released by JP Morgan in May projected that Anheuser-Busch's earnings for the year would drop 26%, with sales not recovering fully until the 2024 fiscal year."

- If US companies 'go woke', do they really go broke?

What I’m about to say may be considered blasphemy in Australia, but I hate beer in general. Though I will still go to any beer festivals just to try out differing ones. I swear there was a Swedish or German one I liked. But I can’t remember lol

On another note. I’m beyond sick of “go woke, go broke.”
It was memed out of existence when Captain Marvel made over 1 billion back in the day. It’s being memed out of existence again with the astronomical profit of the Barbie movie.
If that’s going broke, sign me the hell up!

 

[SomeRandom]

The boycott was because bigots don't like seeing displays of acceptance, validation, or normalization of those they hate.

For example, if trans = evil, and bud light = pro-trans, then bud light = evil.

Ahh, but of course. Silly me, how could I forget

 

[Father Heathen]

What I’m about to say may be considered blasphemy in Australia, but I hate beer in general. Though I will still go to any beer festivals just to try out differing ones. I swear there was a Swedish or German one I liked. But I can’t remember lol

On another note. I’m beyond sick of “go woke, go broke.”
It was memed out of existence when Captain Marvel made over 1 billion back in the day. It’s being memed out of existence again with the astronomical profit of the Barbie movie.
If that’s going broke, sign me the hell up!

Religious conservatives in the U.S. think their viewpoint is the normal default and anything other is an outlier and aberration. It's a very obtuse and insular POV.

 

[Father Heathen]

@SomeRandom In the U.S. random conservatives will engage in conversation with you under the presumption that you're one too and just start saying racist and homophobic things and ramble about conspiracy theory nonsense with the expectation that you'll nod in agreement and reaffirm them simply because you don't fit whatever wacky stereotype of a liberal that lives their head, then act shocked and taken aback when you rebuke them.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The music of Beethoven is not political in nature, so how is it a reasonable comparison with the described nature of the country music genre? Beethoven's music may have been co-opted by white supremacists (has it?) but that is nothing to do with the composer himself. He was not working in a field that was antagonist towards him.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I honestly think that Beethoven's only opera (which he hated writing) Fidelio is very much a cry for "liberty" of the kind that Enlightenment thinkers spent so much time on. It is that "liberty" that I define as classic liberalism, and that the Western world has worked so hard to achieve -- and which is now somewhat under threat in many places. Sadly, including the United States. (By the way, just saw Fidelio again last weekend at the Canadian Opera Company in Toronto. Fabulous production, absolutely fabulous.)

 

[JustGeorge]

@SomeRandom In the U.S. random conservatives will engage in conversation with you under the presumption that you're one too and just start saying racist and homophobic things and ramble about conspiracy theory nonsense with the expectation that you'll nod in agreement and reaffirm them simply because you don't fit whatever wacky stereotype of a liberal that lives their head, then act shocked and taken aback when you rebuke them.

I guess I haven't had that happen.

But its probably because I look funny.

Perhaps that's a blessing.

 

[sun rise]

Some consider the idea of tolerance and diversity a liberal one, hence the backlash.

Sadly you are right

 

[Father Heathen]

I guess I haven't had that happen.

But its probably because I look funny.

Perhaps that's a blessing.

Years ago I had a little old white lady who I've never met in my life just come up to me while I was working and share their very racist and violent thoughts about Obama. It was a very shocking and uncomfortable experience.

 

[JustGeorge]

Years ago I had a little old white lady who I've never met in my life just come up to me while I was working and share their very racist and violent thoughts about Obama. It was a very shocking and uncomfortable experience.

I imagine that would be. Sorry you had to deal with that.

 

[sun rise]

Religious conservatives in the U.S. think their viewpoint is the normal default and anything other is an outlier and aberration. It's a very obtuse and insular POV.

I'd replace "aberration" with "abomination"

 

[Father Heathen]

I guess I haven't had that happen.

But its probably because I look funny.

Perhaps that's a blessing.

When I lived and worked in Indiana/Ohio, I would hear it all the time on the job, out shopping, at bars, in Ma & Pa hole-in-the-wall diners, etc.