Critic on Islam

[AhmadSyahir]

Hello everyone . I want to hear your critic on Islam. I just want to know what's the image on your mind about it. What ever you thinking of you can write. But always remember to use good word :yes:. For muslim, I hope you will not be offended since I myself is a muslim. This is only for discussion.

 

[Breathe]

In your opinion, do you think most criticisms of Islam are subjective, or objective?

 

[Madhuri]

I think like most religions there are good and bad things within Islam. What I dislike is that it is exclusive. This essentially means that it is a religion that claims to be the only way, where if you are not a member, you don't get rewarded in the afterlife. I am attracted to philosophies that focus more on the quality of the individual, that is, a person is reward for being good, not for what they believe. But based on my discussion with many Muslims, including fairly liberal minded Muslims, Islam seems to take a stand that only a Muslim can even be a genuinely good person.

I think that is unfortunate. But I note that a lot of Muslims are really good people.

When I see a Muslim or think of Islam, I feel a mixture of curiosity and disappointment. I would love to have some close Muslim friends just like I have close friends from so many other backgrounds. But Muslims seem to keep to themselves and their body language indicates that do not want to be approached. At least, that has been my experience in my country so far. I wish, again, that Muslims were not so exclusive.

 

[Badran]

I think like most religions there are good and bad things within Islam. What I dislike is that it is exclusive. This essentially means that it is a religion that claims to be the only way, where if you are not a member, you don't get rewarded in the afterlife. I am attracted to philosophies that focus more on the quality of the individual, that is, a person is reward for being good, not for what they believe. But based on my discussion with many Muslims, including fairly liberal minded Muslims, Islam seems to take a stand that only a Muslim can even be a genuinely good person.

That is true for most Muslims, but not all, for whatever thats worth.

When I see a Muslim or think of Islam, I feel a mixture of curiosity and disappointment. I would love to have some close Muslim friends just like I have close friends from so many other backgrounds. But Muslims seem to keep to themselves and their body language indicates that do not want to be approached. At least, that has been my experience in my country so far. I wish, again, that Muslims were not so exclusive.

This part though i think has more to do with your experience than how it really is. Thats not to say most Muslims don't act like that, but that a huge number of Muslims are more than fine with being friends with people from other religions.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

In your opinion, do you think most criticisms of Islam are subjective, or objective?

It's subjective. Criticism will be subjective if objective can't describe it.

 

[Breathe]

It's subjective. Criticism will be subjective if objective can't describe it.

I think so, too.

I think the majority of criticisms on religions come down to personal opinions, badly applied practices, misconceptions, and things taken to be true which are of questionable origin.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Yup, mostly just the exclusivity of the whole thing, as Madhuri said.

I also take objection to the denying of future prophets, and the whole "Muhammad and Qur'an are for ever, for all mankind" thing.

 

[Madhuri]

This part though i think has more to do with your experience than how it really is. Thats not to say most Muslims don't act like that, but that a huge number of Muslims are more than fine with being friends with people from other religions.

Now I have to out how to meet one and spark a friendship

 

[AhmadSyahir]

I think like most religions there are good and bad things within Islam. What I dislike is that it is exclusive. This essentially means that it is a religion that claims to be the only way, where if you are not a member, you don't get rewarded in the afterlife. I am attracted to philosophies that focus more on the quality of the individual, that is, a person is reward for being good, not for what they believe. But based on my discussion with many Muslims, including fairly liberal minded Muslims, Islam seems to take a stand that only a Muslim can even be a genuinely good person.

I think that is unfortunate. But I note that a lot of Muslims are really good people.

When I see a Muslim or think of Islam, I feel a mixture of curiosity and disappointment. I would love to have some close Muslim friends just like I have close friends from so many other backgrounds. But Muslims seem to keep to themselves and their body language indicates that do not want to be approached. At least, that has been my experience in my country so far. I wish, again, that Muslims were not so exclusive.

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it.

Exclusive can't describe any faith. Faith is mainly a faith. We can't never say that there's one God that all of the world religion worship because every religion teach different things which sometimes disagree with each other. That's why in Islam we're teach to preach with wisdom.

For example: If we're trying to encourage, we will give hope. But we will tell a person not to be too confident so they will not make so much mistake.

This conclude that we need to be modest in everything we done.

Faith does not ensure one to be a good person. It is his faith and loyalty to his faith that keep him from doing bad thing. There's a Muslim,Christian,Hindus that commit crime and evil doing but you will find that they're not even know a single thing about their religion. It's only on his ID card.

If you're a man, you should befriend of a male muslim. If you're female, then you should befriend of a female muslim. Islam don't encourage mix gender between male and female since there will be many social problem that we have face now. Also to be remembered that male and female is forbidden to touch each other(except for family and legal marriage).

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Yup, mostly just the exclusivity of the whole thing, as Madhuri said.

I also take objection to the denying of future prophets, and the whole "Muhammad and Qur'an are for ever, for all mankind" thing.

You will never find any religion that won't stating that their religion is the most right religion. Except for religion that believe that the God which worshiped by all religion is the same.

In Islam, Muhammad is the last prophet. Prophet for the people of 'the last age'.
He is 40 years old when he recieve the words from Allah(Quran) and he died about twenty years later. If you have critic on Muhammad, you can write on him as well.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

I think so, too.

I think the majority of criticisms on religions come down to personal opinions, badly applied practices, misconceptions, and things taken to be true which are of questionable origin.

Answers and critics must come with reliable resources and proof. But sometimes, we don't realize what a person is trying to tell since they don't present the concept very well. So, we should understand the concept first before putting any critics or answering critics.

 

[Caladan]

Hello everyone . I want to hear your critic on Islam. I just want to know what's the image on your mind about it. What ever you thinking of you can write. But always remember to use good word :yes:. For muslim, I hope you will not be offended since I myself is a muslim. This is only for discussion.

Hi,

One of the big things I can think of is that Muslims normally illustrate Islam or their points in major debates in social opposites, and many times in order to glorify Islam in the face of its opposite.
for example: that the Islamic scripture is infallible but the other major scriptures are corrupted, the virtues of Islam against an immoral west, etc.

Like Madhuri, I think the disappointment is that many of us are opened enough to communicate every day with other cultures, we are even opened enough to happily study their religion or theology, but when we discuss these things with Muslims we know we are headed towards a brick wall, and that all our sound arguments, supported by natural sciences or by good intentions are going to be exhausted.

Its a bit disappointing, that you take the time to read someone's scripture, study their religion and history, and not get that in return. its also disappointing that you want to keep up to date with modern science and philosophy, but many arguments which involve Islam seem to expect you to simply shrug off whatever scientific or philosophical understanding you have acquired through the years.
its as if many of us have a knee jerk reaction to expect misconceptions or antagonising in political, social, or religious issues when debating Muslims.

To capture what I am trying to illustrate:
Many here do their best to be opened towards discussion with Muslims and about Islam in general, we do our best to see beyond stereotypes, but get the sense that no matter how far we will reach for the most culturally positive aspects in Islam, we will have the nagging feeling that many Muslims will do their best to form Orientalist prejudices in our brains against our will.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Hi,

One of the big things I can think of is that Muslims normally illustrate Islam or their points in major debates in social opposites, and many times in order to glorify Islam in the face of its opposite.
for example: that the Islamic scripture is infallible but the other major scriptures are corrupted, the virtues of Islam against an immoral west, etc.

Like Madhuri, I think the disappointment is that many of us are opened enough to communicate every day with other cultures, we are even opened enough to happily study their religion or theology, but when we discuss these things with Muslims we know we are headed towards a brick wall, and that all our sound arguments, supported by natural sciences or by good intentions are going to be exhausted.

Its a bit disappointing, that you take the time to read someone's scripture, study their religion and history, and not get that in return. its also disappointing that you want to keep up to date with modern science and philosophy, but many arguments which involve Islam seem to expect you to simply shrug off whatever scientific or philosophical understanding you have acquired through the years.
its as if many of us have a knee jerk reaction to expect misconceptions or antagonising in political, social, or religious issues when debating Muslims.

To capture what I am trying to illustrate:
Many here do their best to be opened towards discussion with Muslims and about Islam in general, we do our best to see beyond stereotypes, but get the sense that no matter how far we will reach for the most culturally positive aspects in Islam, we will have the nagging feeling that many Muslims will do their best to form Orientalist prejudices in our brains against our will.

Thank you my friend. Good point. The question is why Muslim apply their religion in every aspect of their life is because religion is the way of life not just knowing and studying the Creator but then disobeying His orders.

About scripture, do you know that Al-Quran have the name of 4 major scripture of Abrahamic religion? It is stated that all of it come from the same God which is Allah in Islam. And it told that 3 of the scripture Zabur, Torah, Injil(Gospel) have been ditorted. In your opinion, why there are many similarities between religions? Al-Quran have give the answer and that is what muslim believe. They will glorify the Quran in the eyes of human being.

In a discussion there will be many dispute. The problem is both side didn't really understand the concept that were presented. Different culture make a huge gaps between people. Sometimes, the answer is there but we will still deny the answer.

 

[Caladan]

About scripture, do you know that Al-Quran have the name of 4 major scripture of Abrahamic religion? It is stated that all of it come from the same God which is Allah in Islam. And it told that 3 of the scripture Zabur, Torah, Injil(Gospel) have been ditorted. In your opinion, why there are many similarities between religions? Al-Quran have give the answer and that is what muslim believe. They will glorify the Quran in the eyes of human being.

You are doing what I commented about, with or without realizing it.
I'm sorry. but I did not ask for a sermon.
I am a relatively educated man. I've read the Qur'an on more than one occasion, and I am more interested to read Classical Arabic literature when people don't glorify it.

In a discussion there will be many dispute. The problem is both side didn't really understand the concept that were presented.

I think you are doing a great disservice to the people you communicate with. in fact this is what I would call a flawed way to communicate or converse.
people here are not stupid. they understand very well the concepts which are being presented.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

You are doing what I commented about, with or without realizing it.
I'm sorry. but I did not ask for a sermon.
I am a relatively educated man. I've read the Qur'an on more than one occasion, and I am more interested to read Classical Arabic literature when people don't glorify it.


I think you are doing a great disservice to the people you communicate with. in fact this is what I would call a flawed way to communicate or converse.
people here are not stupid. they understand very well the concepts which are being presented.

Well, it is you who tought so. I've think the possibilities of that. I'll explain what I just said which I think you don't understand. I just said why muslim insist the rest of the scripture had been distorted. I just tell you why there's similarities between Abrahamic religion scripture in the view of muslim. This is no sermon. I just tell you the reason why so you can understand the reason for muslim to act that way. Again, I just tell the reason why.

You have let your heart to hate. I'm not trying to sermon but instead,
I'm explaining. You clearly don't look into the subject with an open mind. Sometimes we don't realize because we have that hatred in our heart toward something and not allowing us to look at it with the same view that we used to learn;using our mind,thought and all that lies within us.

Believe me, all that I'm doing is explaining. That's all.

I beg you don't be so offended. The barrier of culture, language and lifestyle is also affecting the understanding of certain concept.

In a discussion there will be many dispute. The problem is both side didn't really understand the concept that were presented.

The quote is differ from my statement. I just trying to state the problem in discussing about certain subject.

 

[Caladan]

Well, it is you who tought so. I've think the possibilities of that. I'll explain what I just said which I think you don't understand. I just said why muslim insist the rest of the scripture had been distorted. I just tell you why there's similarities between Abrahamic religion scripture in the view of muslim. This is no sermon. I just tell you the reason why so you can understand the reason for muslim to act that way. Again, I just tell the reason why.

If you think that members on this forum, after spending several years discussing religious points with Muslims, Christians, and members of other religions do not know what you've just said, you are very wrong.
if you cannot understand why telling me that 'Al Quran gave the answer' is a sermon, then I'm afraid I can't help you. and I'm also afraid you will be disappointed again and again to discover that not only other people will not be convinced by such arguments, you are certainly not the first one they have heard it from. it gets old and tiring after a while.

You have let your heart to hate.

So much for your ability to listen to criticism. so why did you create this thread in the first place really?
after your comment, I understand it was never to discuss genuine criticism of Islam, because you are unable to listen to such. you created this thread simply to preach about Islam.

I'm not trying to sermon but instead,
I'm explaining. You clearly don't look into the subject with an open mind.

Opened minded enough to read the Qur'an cover to cover. and open minded enough to have a modest library about Islamic history and the meaning of the Qur'an at home.

Sometimes we don't realize because we have that hatred in our heart toward something and not allowing us to look at it with the same view that we used to learn;using our mind,thought and all that lies within us.

You simply have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that some people look at the same thing, from a different point of view, and will probably always reach different conclusions.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

If you think that members on this forum, after spending several years discussing religious points with Muslims, Christians, and members of other religions do not know what you've just said, you are very wrong.
if you cannot understand why telling me that 'Al Quran gave the answer' is a sermon, then I'm afraid I can't help you. and I'm also afraid you will be disappointed again and again to discover that not only other people will not be convinced by such arguments, you are certainly not the first one they have heard it from. it gets old and tiring after a while.


So much for your ability to listen to criticism. so why did you create this thread in the first place really?
after your comment, I understand it was never to discuss genuine criticism of Islam, because you are unable to listen to such. you created this thread simply to preach about Islam.


Opened minded enough to read the Qur'an cover to cover. and open minded enough to have a modest library about Islamic history and the meaning of the Qur'an at home.

You simply have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that some people look at the same thing, from a different point of view, and will probably always reach different conclusions.

I now realize why. You really don't like muslim for no reason. I actually by all mean, never think that you will get very offended over the matter. By informing you why and explaining to you the muslim view upon the subject is telling you about its teaching which I assume the process to learn each others culture.

I'm sorry if my word may hurt you :sorry1: but I'm explaining the reason of muslims act so you'll know why. The thing that I don't understand is why you mad at me for informing you. If you already know the reason for muslim to consider the rest of the scripture are distorted, then you just tell me. We can just have a nice and peace talk on the subject. Once again, I'm telling you a reason for muslim to act that way not glorifying it infront of you. But if you feel that I'm glorifying it by explaining it, I think that you're really not looking into my word well.

 

[Madhuri]

I now realize why. You really don't like muslim for no reason.

You would probably receive more positive responses from people if you stop saying things like the above or that they have hate in their heart.

 

[Caladan]

I now realize why. You really don't like muslim for no reason. I actually by all mean, never think that you will get very offended over the matter. By informing you why and explaining to you the muslim view upon the subject is telling you about its teaching which I assume the process to learn each others culture.

I'm sorry if my word may hurt you :sorry1: but I'm explaining the reason of muslims act so you'll know why. The thing that I don't understand is why you mad at me for informing you. If you already know the reason for muslim to consider the rest of the scripture are distorted, then you just tell me. We can just have a nice and peace talk on the subject. Once again, I'm telling you a reason for muslim to act that way not glorifying it infront of you. But if you feel that I'm glorifying it by explaining it, I think that you're really not looking into my word well.

Telling me that I have hatred in my heart is hardly explaining to me the Islamic point of view. is it?

 

[AhmadSyahir]

You would probably receive more positive responses from people if you stop saying things like the above or that they have hate in their heart.

I know that it might hurt others. I've thought about it before putting it on. I'm really sorry but all that I want to know is why people considering me to preach just because I put the muslim view in it. Muslim view is according to the Quran. I can't firgure out any other reason why people hate so much since I just put muslims view upon the matter. So, I came to a conclusion to put this word on the screen to know why telling the view of Quran is considered a sermon.